Posted by: The Stadium | February 24, 2009

The Lion's Review — Odysseus

Holy crap thats a good backstory. And thats not the only thing good about this moveset from a glance…. organization is pretty win.

Now to get into the thing I’m famed for… balance.

The balance of the stats is just a little bit sketchy, as he doesn’t really appear to be weak at anything besides his air game. Tall height balances out heavy weight. The slight lack of speed and attack speed doesn’t do much to balance out the strength, because basically you’ve got Link in the speed stats. His recovery is above average. His traction is great, meaning he will rarely trip and can turn with ease. And lastly he has great reach. The pros and cons further cast doubt on balance.

Of course, stats and pros+cons can only give you an initial impression. To truly know balance, you must go in debth on the moves.

The A attack is a little bland and uncreative. It appears to be relatively balanced. Perhaps to mix things up just a little bit you could cause this move to miss small characters like Pikachu and Kirby (and especially Olimar/Pichu) if they are just standing. Remember to post approximate attack reach, priority, hitstun and most importantly.. knockback.

The Side Tilt is pretty much the same story but a little more interesting. I would recommend the same height affected dodge. Again remember to post the approx priority and hitstun. Just saying things like “one of his quicker attacks” doesn’t do much to express the speed of the move. Lets say that Ganondorf’s dair is his quickest attack (and I don’t know if it is)… hes a slow character so just how fast is that move?

Okay, while more creative, the Down Tilt is just lacking in the detail and just seems kind of useless. Okay.. a tad weak reach wise doesn’t express this attack enough. Where are the hitboxes? Are they in front, behind, above? For all I know, it could hit characters who are side-stepping only. Again, hitstun and priority would be a nice touch.

The Up-Tilt is so much better really. You actually get a little bit more into detail. Really all I can suggest for this move is to add hitstun and priority.

Geez the dash attack has so much potential and yet its one of the most underdone moves in the set. It doesn’t even state an approximate reach. Great KO potential doesn’t exactly state how much knockback it does. I want to know what level of knockback the move does and in what direction. This move, while bland in appearance has so many possibilities in function. Why, just doing something as simple as making it an alternate throw of sorts, casting the control stick in the direction you want the foe to be knocked back would go a long way towards adding variety to the set.

The Side Smash suffers from underdetailedness. You should really state the reach of the move and again.. add attack hitstun and priority. Perhaps one effect to make this move more unique would be to have the main part of the club be the sourspot and the sharpened tip be the sweetspot.

Way to spoil one of the most important parts of the story. The Up Smash is one of the better moves in the set.  Unfortunately it is highly derivative of Snake’s Up-Smash in function. Not to many ways around that I suppose. You need to state how far the arrow will go when not fully charged before falling down. Perhaps to make this different from Snake’s Up-Smash, if only by a little, would be to have the falling uncharged arrow take an even 1 rise/1 run diagonal fall in the direction Odysseus was facing.  You need to state the knockback, and as usual hitstun and priority would be nice.

The description on the Down Smash is whack. From left to right, then from right to left isn’t four times. Its two. Now if you mean 4 slashes alternating directions like that, then yes that is four. Okay it needs reach, estimated duration, ending lag, and knockback. State how easy or difficult it would be for the foe to escape. Again priority and hitstun. On a full charge, I think this could warrant an extra 1% per slash making it 5% per hit on full charge.

Okay now for the aerials.

The Nair, Winds of Change, really isn’t using its creative potential. It works like any 360 aerial pretty much. Whats the point in even making it a bag of winds? Okay it has great hitboxes… but where are they? Is it just on the sides or can it reach above and below? “Not the best knockback” could use more clarification. Oddly enough, you didn’t even mention speed. I bet you’re wondering about the creativity rant though. Being a bag of winds, wouldn’t it be logical to take advantage of it releasing the winds. In this case, it could propel Odysseus backwards a great distance and/or work against the foe like Mario’s FLUDD.

The Fair was actually surprisingly creative. The move seems useful, but should realistically only do about 3% damage if any. How far does the thing go compared to your average attack? How much beginning/ending lag/speed does it have?

The Bair has more creative potential than you would think. Right now its basically just a backwards version of Falcon’s F-Smash with readjusted stats. What if you had it work more like Regal’s Heaven’s Charge in Tales of Symphonia? Dash right through the opponent behind you and then elbow them from behind. That would even further emphasize this being a sneaky attack. How much knockback does the move do… I know it can’t KO, but how useful is it for keeping the foe away? How much reach does this move have? How fast is this in regards to the average character’s attack?

Ok the Dair is lacking in creative potential as well… doesn’t Odysseus throw this thing in the movie? Have him throw the spear downwards, dealing damage at the spear tip only. When it hits the ground (if it hits the ground), why not have it work as an item like a sweetspot-sourspot energy sword or something? This one actually has good hitbox description but some of the other details, such as lag and knockback if it fails to meteor, are missing.

The Uair is good for this sets creative standard but it could use more I think. Perhaps, instead of dealing any direct damage at all, this shield delivers divine punishment to those who hit it with an attack or projectile, kind of like a counter. In the case of Ganondorf, who out-prioritizes the move, a cool little effect would be to have the shield stomped down along with Odysseus. You can come up with whatever effect you want that to cause. Again the move lacks some rather important details, like speed.

The Neutral B lacks creativity.. but there is only so much you can do with it. I would recommend thinking about unique (but realistic) arrow arcs. The fact that it has to be strung helps some. As it is, I think the move could use an additional 2% damage. When working with projectiles, you must state flight speed, projectile reach and priority vs. other projectiles. Also knockback and the other usual details are necessary.

The Side B is a nice concept for sure (though I can’t help but feel as though it were familiar >_>). Really all this needs is more detail as to the reach of the move. If this could destroy a whorenado, that would be awesome, and it could make Odysseus the perfect Metaknight counter.

Now I can kind of see why you chose to make the Nair how it is…but that doesn’t do much to change my opinion on the Nair. 20 seconds is far from a slight recharge time…. R.O.B. refills in two seconds and his recovery is better than this. I would reduce it to 5  seconds minimum (or 10 max). Other than that, its a nice move. Perhaps you could better clarify the speed of the move and the recovery distance in comparison to that of others or if you would prefer with stage builder blocks or other measurement.

The Down Special is a very nice variation of counter but it needs a lot more detail and clarity. Okay… how long does it increase your attack power and ground speed…. how much does increase the stats by, approximately. Does this move give Oddyseus Super Armor or outright nullify the damage of the attack? How long does the stance last?

Wow.. nice grab. Imagine all the dramatized five year olds.

The grab attack is a bit broken. The standard for a grab attack is 2%. Or does this one have a slower speed?

Ok the most important part of throws is the damage and knockback of them, and of course whether or not they can chain (a detail you left out of all but one).

How much knockback does the F-Throw do? It sounds like its only enough to combo them with an A-Attack, in which case that 9% damage may be to much.

The Back Throw is pretty typical, but throws aren’t exactly an area with huge room for creativity. I don’t really see anything wrong with it balance wise. This should do considerable knockback.

The day you admit that something isn’t noteworthy is the day that you stop trying… Seriously… come up with something for the throw to make it worth using.

The Up Throw is a bit better, seeing as their is no 6 slash throw currently in the game… but again why would someone use this when the other throws, except for the down throw, are clearly better.

The Final Smash is a simple but fairly creative concept. Warlord would probably call it underdetailed, but I can’t see anything else that particularly needs to be said. I don’t really see much, if anything, wrong with the balance of it.

Extras are well… extra. You don’t have to add them, but they are a nice touch. You atleast added some stuff but most of it isn’t particularly noteworthy. The codec was rather awkward.

In summary… its not really bad… its just that I’m surprised to see this out of you, MT. Not long ago you made Shanoa, which was just breathtaking. Are you holding back on purpose? This actually caused me to review creativity and detail rather than balance. On the bright side, the balance, judging by the provided details, really was much better than the stats and pros+cons had lead me to believe. Just learn from the review and it should be fine.


  1. Heh, I’m not holding back in the slightest, I just admit that Odysseus, while one of my more enjoyable sets to create was one of my weaker ones and is probably my weakest one this time around.

    Basically I rushed myself, felt like I had done a moveset in a while and thought I should be getting Odysseus done a lot faster than I was working on him, so I rushed the end of the set, the most notable of these can be seen in the Down Special and the Dash Attack which I literally added three minutes before posting.

    I tried to keep him as realistic to the poem as possible while creating this set so that kind of explains (but doesn’t excuse) the creativity problems.

    Like I said above, I rushed Odysseus so a lot of it is underdetailed or not explained properly, I openly admit this is my own fault for rushing myself instead of putting the time and effort I put into Shanoa into this set.

    Plus there was the whole idea of having to make a set that I knew damn well wasn’t gonna pass Shanoa in quality, I created Odysseus knowing I’d get the response of “It’s good, but Shanoa’s better,” so I guess that didn’t help much.

    All in all I understand 100% where you’re coming from with this review, thanks a ton for taking the time to look at it ^_^

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