Posted by: masterwarlord | August 7, 2009

Envy This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! — Hades

Hades by BKupa666

I questioned largely what character you’d make that you really thought I’d want to review. A remake of Hades didn’t cross my mind as particularly likely and it didn’t seem to make much sense once you posted it, but that picture at the end causes it to all make sense, heh. Either way, this is an excellent set in it’s own right. It’s a bigger step up for you then Bowser Jr, IMO, considering the Koopa Prince rode the easiest wave possible to join the main movement – being an absolutely blatant trap character. Hades also finally rids you of some of the problems that have been a constant thorn in your side since the beginning of time.

Originality: Hades certainly isn’t a drop down from your usual standards in term of originality. Despite being so much more playstyle focused, his moves are still as creative as ever. While there is the occasional cliché in there (He shares his dsmash with Zasalamel and Richard), it’s a freaking Disney villain. A few clichés should be expected. The mechanic on the whole is surprisingly cool, and I detest the fact that it’s the main thing people bash about the set. No attacks ever feel that bland, but yet at the same time you rarely go out of your way to make them unique with awkward effects. . .In most cases, anyway.

The ftilt in particular feels like one of those moves that’s basically “generic move, WITH A TWIST!!!” that has become so problematic for you over the ages. If you’re going to do something like that, make sure the generic part is shoved aside and just an after thought. While you’ve gotten better at hiding these things away, particularly due to your detail level finally starting to go down, that doesn’t change the fact they’re still there. They’re just more forgivable then they were previously.

That said, that’s more just a general complaint about your sets, as because as stated it doesn’t plague Hades nearly as much as your other sets. Your excellent side special and grab from MYM 4 Hades manage to make triumphant returns, the former with a new twist (Quite literally). The Final Smash, while similar in concept to the old one, is executed much better, and all four of the titan movesets are surprisingly interesting and fun to read through.

Playstyle: Here’s where things really start to get good. While Hades’ mechanic is unmistakably cool, one could question why it couldn’t just be thrown onto any stereotypical villain, hence the complaint of many of the other MYMers (And hence why it’s written as a negative in the definitive roster, Rool just having copy/pasta Silver’s commentary due to refusing the read this masterpiece). I hardly see how that’s true, though, when you focus on this element so much in his playstyle and you even give Hades means of manipulating his damage level with his up special so he can actually take advantage of the mechanic.

One thing I’d like to attack you for slightly is the down special, though. While the move is surprisingly well balanced, you openly admit that it’s completely unusable and is just put in there for the lulz. While this wouldn’t be –that- bad (Not –everything- has to go with one’s playstyle, and it even interacts with the mechanic slightly), you have an inconsistency when you go into your playstyle section and you talk about the move a good bit, acting as if it’s a part of his playstyle. I’ve never been fond of movesets contradicting themselves.

Back on the good (Which is pretty much everything) the set manages to flow together with ease despite not being entirely reliant on it’s mechanic and not being remotely close to a trap character. In addition, the playstyle section is by far the best you’ve ever written. It’s one of the main reasons I’m so supportive of the set in this section. Unlike your previous sets, this playstyle actually contains accurate information (Unlike Tryclyde) and also only focuses on relevant points (Unlike Bowser Jr.), which also translates to it becoming shorter and readable. As if that wasn’t enough, Hades actually has more to playing against him then the dreaded pressure Junahu hates so much. Sure, it’s still there, but it’s not the entire focus, for once.

Detail: This is the most readable set you’ve ever made. I don’t know what hit you to tone down the detail on this one, but you finally managed to hit the nail right on the head with Hades. Your moves aren’t torture to tread through due to you keeping you writing style nice and brief. Of course, you still have all the necessary details to boot. Can’t entirely abandon our roots, can we? Really, you’ve reached my favorite level of detail with Hades.

. . .However, despite the main writing style being good, there are a good few things that I would’ve trimmed. The side special is one of the main culprits, seeing it’s actually in the main moveset. Why do you have to give a few sentences about each character’s projectiles when they function exactly as normal? The only actual news we get here is how many times he can use each character’s projectile, which isn’t worth adding that extra reading time and increasing the size (And thus the intimidation) of the wall of text.

While Pain and Panic are cool extras with surprisingly somewhat creative movesets, I find it very obligatory that they’re given feature length stats and animations. I was almost turned off from reading them because of those, and I imagine plenty of others would be as well. As you know, I’ve cut animations nearly entirely and am trying to (And have failed) to minimize stats, so you know what I think about them in general, even if Hades’ animations are cool. In addition, why do Pain and Panic get such obligatory sections as stats and animations over a playstyle? Granted, they’re intended to function as a part of Hades. . .Just get rid of those blasted stats and animations and we’ll be good either way.

Balance: Before I go into this, one complaint I’d like to say that’s been consistent with you since Tryclyde is that you underrated your characters’ recoveries in the stats section. I don’t care if they can be easily gimped. The fact that they can get back from any point on the stage is still enough to rank it at least a 6 or 7 when characters like Link can’t even recover at all.

Now that that’s out of the way, Hades is pretty well balanced. Much better then my recent sets for sure. His mechanic can go either way, and nothing in his set leaps out at me to overpower him. On the other hand, he certainly feels to have plenty of options of his own to make him perfectly viable. I thought for sure you’d make down special overpowered as I read it, but you even managed to balance that. At first I thought it was underpowered, but then once I read the playstyle I saw you later changed your mind on it, and the move seems to have enough arguments either way to still be at least useful, so I’d say it’s plenty balanced. . .Just (again) stop making the moveset contradict itself, please.

Relevance to Character: This IS freaking Hades. I don’t care what Junahu says about my reviews being nice here, it’s very, very difficult to find a moveset more in character then this, and you’ve always been great at this since back in the old MYM 3 days. While this has never been a problem for you, this moveset gets special honors here. While this could be another argument for why the mechanic seems “tacked on” due to it being fitting for any villain, you insert Hades’ personality into the mechanic and into several other moves. His character just really flows throughout this set in a similar manner to how one would want a playstyle to. It really is quite something.

Organization: . . .This confirms for me that Rool was just looking for all the more filler in his definitive roster blurb on Hades. This really is nothing special here and is just the same old tired template. Not that it’s bad, but this section is far from a highlight. Even I agree here that the bolding is rather overused, just as I overused it in Ludicolo. I will give you bonus points for those cool dancing flames for the headers, though.

Extras: The stage seems to be nearly entirely reused from the MYM 4 version of the moveset. While I did re-read it, nothing seemed new. That’s fine, seeing I doubt anybody else remembers the stage anyway, and the stage itself is plenty good anyway, although your excuse for pretending the walk offs weren’t an issue was rather poor. The assist trophy is plenty good, although I don’t remember what the MYM 4 version (Which was also the there fates) was like, so I can’t be sure there.

The match ups are slowly becoming more and more realistic from you, particularly evident by you not BSing your way through giving Hades an advantage against Meta Knight. That said, your bias is still somewhat present in the Bowser match up, it seems. . .Still, either way, your match ups are slowly evolving to become more and more realistic. I’m just curious why you don’t take the chance to cash in on more viewers by giving match ups against MYMer movesets. In particular I would’ve loved to see one against Ryuk thanks to that epic picture. That would’ve been a pretty interesting match up too, what with Ryuk having to stay ahead due to. . .Well. . .Punishment from the death gods, which gives Hades bonuses from his mechanic. . .

Overall: So yeah. I feel this moveset is very deserving of it’s place in the definitive roster. It’s a turning point for you on the matters of both playstyle and detail, two of the biggest thorns in your side, while still being plenty of an epic moveset in it’s own right. Now then, if only I could get Rool to read it. . .Perhaps if you took my suggestions on making this all the more readable he’d be more open to it? While I’ll probably just overhype this like I did Metal Man, I hope to see this one go far. This is far more deserving of my support then that TRAP CHARACTER (*gasp*) was.



  1. 1) TWO exclamation marks?? What gives, man??

    2) No link to page or user makes me smile. Second part of comment makes me (mad#).

    3) I maintain that the mechanic is tacked-on. It doesn’t feel especially fitting to Hades, either in concept or in execution, whether or not it makes for an interesting playstyle, ultimately.

    4) Did I really compliment that organization? Must’ve been because the pretty – and actually properly sized, unlike 99% of images used around headers – little flames throughout.

    5) I most certainly did not copy-paste my comment from Silver’s. I did what I’ve been doing sporadically since MYM 3 – gave a skim for the most important parts of the moveset and commented briefly on them and the organization.

    6) I’ll read this properly as soon as THOSE DAMN BLUE BOLDED PARAGRAPHS STOP HURTING MY EYES

    7) Tags are serious business.

    Jesus, I have more to reply to when you review someone’s set than they do.

  2. Kupa’s still BSing his way through the matchups to a certain extent. I mean, Dedede burns his ass with a dthrow. WHERE THE HELL DID THAT COME FROM? Not to mention that all the matchups are for very high tier and very low tier characters. It isn’t original anymore to balance Brawl with the matchups.

    Still, the rest of the set is great.

  3. Well yeah, but Kupa came up with an actual character interaction for that. There are bigger culprits in there then the D3 match up (Bowser) for being unrealistic, and the reasoning doesn’t really seem to support the high number.

    Balancing Brawl through one character is nigh impossible, unless you cheat in that fashion and give your moveset character interactions with others. I specifically designed Al to at least be able to combat MK and D3 while being obliterated by Bowser and Ganondorf from the start. That wasn’t BSing there. If you want BSing, check out most of Ludicolo’s match ups. That’s a prime example of it right there, particularly the one against Sloth. A character interaction or two is nice, but changing a match up completely around through one can come off as forced.

  4. Alright, I’ll address the mechanic first. I can see why people think it could be applied to any villain, but it applies to Hades most of all because…he’s a God, so slacking off due to having immense power is completely feasible. Plus, his wrath is what makes him who he is in the movies, so it’s only natural he’ll focus more when he’s behind. Just my thoughts.

    I’ll keep the other comments in mind, but seeing as how the matchups are generating the most other responses, I’ll touch on those. Dedede burning his ass by sitting on Hades’ flaming head works because it not only gives a huge character a way to be viable against D3, it also is realistic. If you sat on fire, wouldn’t it *gasp* burn you?

    I never really felt bias writing the one for Bowser. Seeing as how the highest matchups he has overall are 50/50 in Brawl, another one of those wouldn’t hurt. Bowsercide would certainly make it hard for Hades to use his benefits from getting damaged; the resistance to fire wasn’t to buff this matchup for Bowser; Hades is practically made of fire. It can’t hurt him all the way.

    That’s just my input on those areas. Nice review, MW…I’ll keep those points in mind for my next sets.

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