Posted by: Junahu | June 2, 2010

Important message for all concerned

READ ME

So, guys. I figure if you’re reading this I somehow managed to get one of the Sandbags to post this up. Guess I just want to say that, well, we need to take the stick out of our collective ass. Go. Go right now and open MYM 8 in your internet browser. Read the posts in the thread – everybody tries so hard to sound formal. It’s strained. And weird. Really fucking weird. We should do something about that.

This isn’t even talking about the constant back references and technical terms – look, it’s fine if you mention a past contest once in a while. But if I can’t read through the thread without having a past MYM mentioned every page, and seeing terms like “Warlordian” thrown around, then there’s a problem.
The solution? Be yourselves. Like, y’know, how we act in the chat? Not that hard. We’ll actually seem like people, and MYM will look fun to the outsiders again.

– SkylerOcon

He’s right, and you guys all know it. High concept bullshit is all well and good HERE, because that’s what this place is for. But having it penetrate the thread so pervasively is nothing but repulsive to any newcomer. Simple, accessable and free are the key things the thread is lacking right now, the things that drew us all to MYM in the first place. None of our formal posts are saying anything anyway, it’s all literally padding and fluff, with the words “flow” and “playstyle” spread around for good measure. As Ocon says, we need to drop this act before we really cement ourselves as that creepy doll-house community that takes its busy work far too seriously.
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Responses

  1. Trufax despite the fact that I’m guilty of it too = \

  2. Nice points, Ocon, and they do kind of express what I’ve been failing to say all this time.

  3. I agree; I’ve been thinking the same thing just reading some of the recent “arguments”

  4. Hahaha. Ocon, you’re a champ.

  5. I agree; Smady is a pompous ass when he posts, and long drawn out arguments between two mymers probably scare some people away.

    I’m trying to figure out how to comment constructively and positively, and I think we all need to do that for everyone’s sake. Both newcomers and even old hats like Plorf are getting tired of it. Sure, he’s the MYM punching bag, but we’ve gotta give him and others a break. If you don’t like a moveset, don’t take it as an insult to your mother.

    I know I’m guilty as much as anyone of being negative, but we really need to make the community more accessible. I never really saw it at first, since I thrive on criticism, but I’m really starting to see how it can intimidate lots of MYMers, new and old.

    We can’t stop keeping this a competitive community, and we can’t stop using terms like Flow and Playstyle, but we need to try to be more accessible.

  6. Oh wow, “pompous ass” really isn’t a graceful title. I usually do try to keep it real in the thread and keep the technical terms to a minimum, by explaining or elaborating on my points where necessary. I don’t know if this is really such a problem as much as the lack of chit-chat in the thread is; blaming the always-being-present elite talk is a fallacy as that is what exists purely without it.

    Also, I dunno, I think this would have been better off in the thread rather than on The Workshop. Maybe newcomers could get in on this discussion, but this way it almost backs up whatever “superiority complex” we’re all supposed to have.

  7. It wasn’t posted in the thread because it’s not the newcomers who have the problem. It’s everybody who knows what the Stadium is that has the problem.

    And you’re a liar if you claim to not fluff up your posts to all hell.

  8. Again, people here all go to the thread as well; that we’re somehow talking of things “above newcomers” is a little much, I’m sure there are plenty of newcomers who get what we’re saying. It only backs up the proposed divide when we start posting “announcements” on the website designed for the veterans.

    Also, I have no idea what you mean by “fluff.”

  9. Personally, I don’t think this has anything to do with “formality” or using “technical” terms, but simply that some people tend to get carried away when it comes to handing out and/or recieving criticism. We should definitley be more lenient to newcomers posting newcomer sets and not chew them out like what initially happened with Garchomp.

    BUT, at the same time, nobody should be afraid to post their honest opinions on a moveset, good or bad, and we definitley shouldn’t discourage actual deiscussions and debate on those opinions if 2 MYMers feel like it. It’s the only way we can expect to learn more about opposing ideas of the fine art of movesetting. And it’s kinda impossible to avoid using some of the more technical terms when discussing a moveset unless you want to comment on a set’s “coolness”.

    And finally, I honestly couldn’t care less how Smady comments. Sure, maybe he does go on longer than most of us, but if that’s how he feels comfortable commenting he should be allowed to do it. Forcing people to be “less formal” in our posts is just as bad as trying to force more formality, either way you’re telling people how to speak instead of letting them speak how they want, and if the veterans are afraid to speak their minds for fear of being labeled as an elitist, well, that’d just be sad.

    tl;dr Being friendly towards the newcomers is more important than the vocabularly we use.

  10. Continuing in a new post since I don’t know how to edit without mod powers…

    Something that I think would really do wonders towards making the thread more accessible would be is people would actually discuss their FUTURE moveset plans in-thread like we did in MYM3 and 4. You know, when we would be like “hey guys, my next set is gonna be ready soon! =D”. If outsiders could see that we are genuinely excited to make these sets throughtout their design and not just when they’re posted, they’d be happier to try out making sets too. As Darth Meanie put it, Axel Gear was one of my easiest sets to get into because I showed enthusiasm for my own work, so if we can show that same enthusiasm outside of the movesets as well, that’s be a great step.

    And plus, it would help to give the thread more discussions than heated debate, don’t you think?

  11. I usually like putting drawn-out debates over a moveset in the chat. It’s a bit more tedious and stressful to have a slow-motion debate through the thread. That’s just me (and Warlord, of course), though.

  12. None of us are newcomers, so we have no idea what this our nonsense must look like from an outsider’s perspective.
    In lieu of any concrete evidence, I ask you guys to just look back at earlier MYMs, where banter was scattered and airy, and we only made criticisms that a layman could easily follow. Ironically, we weren’t friendlier back then. Hell, we were monsters. But at least we were monsters that people could understand.
    You ever see modern abstract art? It’s art apparantly, but noone likes it, specifically because it’s so far abstracted from our understanding, that we assume it to be an alien concept. And all topics and studies of life are like this, the further you go down one path, the more you become abstracted from reality and the more of an alien people will think you are.
    Let’s say we all learned to speak fluent Romanisk, and devoted ourselves to doing nothing other than speaking that way even when talking to non-romanisk speakers. Don’t you think others would find us to be unapproachable?

    Generalised critical statements such as “no flow whatsoever” or “has generic attacks/playstyle” are particularly bad for newcomers to read. A virgin mind wants solid definable examples that they can follow and verify for themselves.
    How can we justify how far we’ve come, if we can’t even explain ourselves to a layman

    And cut MDA some slack. I don’t exactly condone the comment he made, but he’s trying to catch up to our draconian octopus standards, anything he does wrong is on our heads.
    Besides, people like him and Kat are the only guys adding some damn vibrancy around here.

    oh, and I agree, with showing enthusiasm for movesetting.

  13. “Generalised critical statements such as “no flow whatsoever” or “has generic attacks/playstyle” are particularly bad for newcomers to read. A virgin mind wants solid definable examples that they can follow and verify for themselves”

    I feel like most of the veterans are the ones who ARE giving examples though. Warlord specifically mentioned stuff about Edgeworth and Weezing in his comments to point out what he liked and didn’t like, and the most “technical” term he used is playstyle, which is kinda impossible to avoid using when you want to discuss a playstyle and isn’t even that difficult of a word to understand in the most basic sense.

    Maybe some specific examples of all this excess formality would be nice. (chew)

  14. I agree with HR – the more fluent members are the ones talking it out in a way that’s accessible, if anything we’re as friendlier as we are more easily understood now as opposed to back then. Especially with the community at SWF, I don’t see how anything we’re saying is putting off newcomers.

  15. 9_9 I assumed that I lost this arguement. No point dumbing my comments down if all it would get me is a bunch of dirty looks

    but still, it’s annoying to see so many people pretending that there isn’t a problem

    ¬_¬ Seriously man, stop editing comments

  16. “impressed with how much Junahu managed to misinterpret that I assumed without much difficulty by actually, y’know, paying even the slightest amount of attention”

    This sentence confused the hell out of ME.

  17. I still haven’t gotten over what I said about Garchomp. I basically chased off a newcomer who clearly just wanted to have fun making a moveset. And I don’t get why Junahu thinks MY crappy comment was because of you guys. I wrote it down.

    On the other hand, I do like that me and Kat are getting some credit (we’re both working on a joint set right now, in fact). Randomness helps to lift the mood in between all of the long arguments. 🙂

    You guys are right; People need to be more excited about their movesets these days. I know I’m excited about remaking Luffy (even though Junahu’s gonna hate it :P).


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