Posted by: masterwarlord | December 30, 2011

Making shifts meaningful while allowing them to continue to exist

Indeed, Agi, the only language that we talk in is activity. The leadership is supposed to represent, and did for quite some time, the most active movesetters. There are those who’d think that’s a bad thing such as PC (Who also believes the leadership should bend to the non existent needs of xat), but the reason that we have a monopoly on the leadership and the system stopped working is because of Roonahu leaving the leadership. They blatantly gave me this power to rape the top 50 by leaving, only to realize they had to come up with a way to take it away without coming back into leadership, and, in Rool’s case, having to commit to stay active. God forbid.

Now let’s make something clear. You lot all know the unhealthy levels I foster competition in MYM to – do you think I like having complete control over the top 50? The competitive aspect is removed if the top 50 becomes irrelevant – I don’t have to give two shits about getting rid of an impaling move to appease LoL or DM. I don’t want complete control over the top 50. Nobody complained about PKS when there were people of differing opinions competing over it in the leadership.

Now, just because Roonahu refuses to come into leadership I’m not just going to remove somebody who agrees with me despite them being perfectly active, so we reach the conundrum of me automatically winning if I just keep PKS in place with the current leadership system. Leadership should still have the biggest names (Who do not randomly refuse leadership) looking over the top 50 if anyone does – the very few people at this point that can even prove that they read sets that they would be manipulating.

Firstly, I wanted n88 to become active enough to get the 5th leader position, because I do in fact not want absolute and total power less I automatically win everything by default. Unfortunately, FA, somebody who is notorious for agreeing with my opinions more-so than Kupa ever was, has outclassed n88 in activity, getting us back to square one with a hilariously one sided PKS phase.

So something I am very seriously considering here is vastly increasing the amount of leadership slots. If we let in FA, who deserves it for his activity, we’d need 8 slots in total for the leadership to make a stalemate against people who agree with my movesetting philosophies.  N88 and LoL obviously take up two of the four opposing positions very nicely. The main reason I’m not sold on this idea is the fact that there are very few candidates to take up the remaining two slots.

You think this is something I’ve come up with on the spot? I’m much more open to reasoning with the likes of Junahu and Agi than Smady. I wanted MT to be a leader before he backstabbed me over Nick largely because of how much Nick agreed with my movesetting views, and was only forced to put in Nick because of said betrayal. Hell, the day the Bunker was posted, I almost bloody gave in out of mis-prediction of what Junahu would do next and was signing a contract with Rool that abolished the entirety of the leadership.

And Rool was saying THAT bloody abomination wasn’t “balanced” enough in his favor. In any case, I almost gave in to that, and would have had Smady not come in and stopped me. Keep that in mind when considering the seriousness of the proposal in this article.

We’ve had ten thousand debates before about democracy or abolishing the leadership or whatever. They never go anywhere, and as Rool pointed out to Phatcat in Agi’s private forum the only way anything ever gets done in that is in hostile takeovers such as the Bunker, which you probably won’t attempt for MYMs to come now that that forum has been made public. You’ve had your chance to talk amongst yourselves, Agi and co, now talk to me. Let’s think about an actual feasible solution here that involves any actual compromise and no more underhanded tricks.

The main thing that has made me post this article was a surprisingly positive reveal I got while looking over his forum relating to Agi. While HR and MT blatantly backstabbed me, Agi actually talked about the possibility of the leadership ever reforming itself. He also actually understands the activity mentality Smady and I have, and wasn’t just shitting on us about putting in “people who agree with us” when you all refuse to ever come into leadership.

He actually tried to encourage his fellow bunker comrades to fight back with activity, which of course was met with no avail because “Smady would claim the activity for himself”. Guess what? I still consider MYM 7 one of the best MYMs, that doesn’t change the fact Smady did nothing whatsoever to help it along. Having your name on the OP means all of jack shit. But oh no, Smady can still pin MYM 8’s failure on MT. Yes, I understand that you were largely talking about Smady on that forum (Even ignoring Phatcat, Smady is far more talked about than I am), who would indeed claim it for himself despite struggling with his specific MYM 11 showing, but it’s still a pretty piss poor excuse to justify wanting to have more political influence in a contest you don’t participate in.

Why did I bother posting that aside from catching your attention by publicly bashing Smady? More as a specific invitation to Agi to try to increase his levels of activity to join us. He doesn’t consider leadership the devil incarnate, and he’s the only one of those people who has not vowed off leadership forever because of petty grudges. If you people actually want this proposal to happen, you’re the ones who can make it happen. Become viable candidates for what would become the remaining 2 leadership positions, because god knows Roonahu and DM will never give up any ground in their quest to abolish leadership forever.

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Responses

  1. >FA, who is notorious for agreeing with my opinions.

    I imagine he thinks you’re insane for putting Cubone at five stars, that’s for sure.

  2. This article is largely addressed to people on the other side of the spectrum, Smashbot, who’s definitions are so sweeping that they consider you and David as Warlord suck ups.

  3. We do? I recall saying that we could convince Smashbot and Dave of our views, I believe. I don’t really think Smashbot likes you too much – you hate him, after all. Dave just likes to make deals; it’s like some sort of creepy fetish he’s got going on, and I think he still resents you for claiming Dutchman as your own.

    Then again, as you’ve seen on that there Hideout, I’m a bit too out there for them to truly accept me as one of the flock. Not trying to throw blame off myself – I support what they’re trying to do, I just wish they’d try to do it.

    As for what you’re proposing here – expanding the leadership – I’m not sure why you think we’d want that, considering we want the leadership to END, not grow. This is a fairly counterproductive bargain for us “people on the other side of the spectrum,” really. Agi might want the leadership to reform itself, I’m not sure if he does, but either way, I see no real reason to try when ending it is so much simpler and more effective. Especially considering the leadership will still do nothing even if it IS expanded. The only thing it COULD do is continue with the Kick/Pick/Shift program, and most everyone has already come to the conclusion that that is unnecessary nowadays. In fact, it would make the KPS system worse, as it would increase the amount of fiddling with the top 50, since more people would have picks and shifts to use and propose.

    Add to that you have 4 people with basically identical views all voting one way, and that means the other 4 all have to agree on the OTHER option to even get to a stalemate. It solves nothing at all about the one-sided unfairness, or any of the inherent flaws with the system. No, what you should do is get rid of that altogether. Just show us the normal top fifty that EVERYONE voted equally for, and offer some way for EVERYONE to be able to change it, like a universal re-vote or something – LoL’s a smart cookie, don’t ignore him.

    And I believe people did complain about the PKS system before all of you took over; I did, at least. Course, all of that would be lost in the pages of xat, since we cannot just look up whether people said anything or not. It doesn’t really matter either way, since we want it now, and it IS now. Doesn’t matter one lick whether we wanted it then or not, because it’s not then anymore.

    And the reason I, at least, am being inactive is not because I think Smady would claim some sort of part in any activity that goes on. Even if he did, it would only make him look like a foolish, arrogant prick. Same goes for any OP who claims they magically made the contest great in any way. I have a few reasons for my lethargy, but none are important to you lot(seems everyone is picking that up now. At least Joe and I will be forever remembered as its fore-bearers), and so none shall be shared.

    Bit late getting to it, but I’ve already thrown my views on leadership out there before. You ignored them, evidently, but oh well, that’s to be expected. Either way, PLEASE do not try to blame the current situation on anyone else. Rool left for some reason unexplained, but Junahu left BECAUSE this corruption got out of control; in no way did he cause it. And if you the leadership truly did not like this control, they would end it, plain as that. If YOU don’t like it, put a damn stop to it then. You could have done that by simply ending the goddamned leadership, giving up on PKS, or trying to get others active.

    Oh, and a bit of a sidenote; “The competitive aspect is removed if the top 50 becomes irrelevant – I don’t have to give two shits about getting rid of an impaling move to appease LoL or DM.”

    Are you saying you wouldn’t have to care if that was removed, or you already don’t? Because really, you shouldn’t do anything just to make someone else feel good. Do it your way, whether others like it or not, but also don’t meddle in other people’s affairs to try and make them do it your way.

  4. We do? I recall saying that we could convince Smashbot and Dave of our views, I believe. I don’t really think Smashbot likes you too much – you hate him, after all. Dave just likes to make deals; it’s like some sort of creepy fetish he’s got going on, and I think he still resents you for claiming Dutchman as your own.

    I hatED Smashbot, as in past tense, because he showed up every MYM for a long time with empty promises of movesets, shat on MYM as a whole and said things were better back in his day, then left. It looked like when he came back in 10 he was ready for another go with that after a hiatus as he spammed stuff like Haggar, but he didn’t. He actually went and became a MYMer. I didn’t believe he would, but I was proven wrong. David barely interacts with the rest of the hideout crew at all, and tends to lean towards my movesetting style regardless. Those wacky boulders.

    And I believe people did complain about the PKS system before all of you took over; I did, at least. Course, all of that would be lost in the pages of xat, since we cannot just look up whether people said anything or not. It doesn’t really matter either way, since we want it now, and it IS now. Doesn’t matter one lick whether we wanted it then or not, because it’s not then anymore.

    Names? I don’t need to give them to say that they didn’t oppose it, considering that’s rather the default until proven otherwise in a time where there was actual trust.

    As for what you’re proposing here – expanding the leadership – I’m not sure why you think we’d want that, considering we want the leadership to END, not grow.

    Obviously you don’t, and obviously we don’t want it to just go and end. The point of this article is compromise. We are not randomly going to give in to your demands, much less after the acts of terrorism you’ve already committed.

    Either way, PLEASE do not try to blame the current situation on anyone else. Rool left for some reason unexplained, but Junahu left BECAUSE this corruption got out of control; in no way did he cause it.

    PLEASE do not try to blame the current situation on anyone but Rool. When he left the leadership was far from dominated by my views, and he eventually came back to keep MYMing regardless. There’s no reason he couldn’t of been in leadership to actively represent the opposition, but he was too much of a hippo not to for entirely unexplained reasons. Jun doesn’t get off the hook either – yes, there was no reason for him to stay when he most recently left, but if, say, Jun had been in leadership in MYM 8 when DM was kicked, he could’ve prevented it and stopped Smady from ever coming into leadership.

    Are you saying you wouldn’t have to care if that was removed, or you already don’t?.

    I’m saying that if it (Competition) was removed I would indeed never care about any of those criticisms again, and MYM would become even more faction based if such a thing could even be conceived.

  5. The thing is, Warlord, you are putting the blame on people because they didn’t stop something they had no idea was coming. It’s like blaming a rape victim for letting themselves be raped. Except you can fight against rape, because it is happening right then and there, where you are. Rool and Junahu left before there were too many problems – those that arose after that may have been prevented by their staying, but in no way did those two have an active hand in causing them. Honestly, I don’t think any single person is to blame. Technically, anyone could have stopped this, if they were active and wanted the position in MYM8, but that doesn’t mean it’s their fault this happened. And it’s not necessarily your fault for not stopping Smady, either, since you couldn’t foresee this either.

    And on the matter of you asking for names for who disliked the PKS system: I said there’s no way to find out, as I doubt anyone remembers and certainly nobody kept a log of it. Either way, if people didn’t want the system abolished then, they were stupid, for it completely undermines the very process of voting, and are now wiser to that, and want it gone. Or, maybe, they are simply stupid, and their opinions and values fluctuate entirely depending on bias and the matter at hand.

  6. Do you not know what Rool was leaving to? Smady was getting fired, yes, but that was before he became a Warlordian represenative. This was the MYM 7 self loathing chat leeching Smady. Want to know what the MYM 8 leadership was being left as?

    DM, MT, MW, Kupa. . .And -Wizzerd-. The original Warlordian yesman in the flesh. They knew they were immediately giving me the majority by leaving.

  7. Maybe so, but I doubt they knew the true implications of it – this hadn’t happened before. Maybe they thought nothing was to come of it, or maybe they just didn’t care.

    And as to why ROOL left when he knew about Warlordgate, as you’ve deemed it, I have no idea. Maybe he felt his involvement in it made him unfit for leadership.

    Still, they can’t be blamed for something they had nothing to do with – maybe that’s why they left; they wanted nothing to do with it.

  8. “You’ve had your chance to talk amongst yourselves, Agi and co, now talk to me. Let’s think about an actual feasible solution here that involves any actual compromise and no more underhanded tricks.”

    Oh, I like this!

    “PLEASE do not try to blame the current situation on anyone but Rool.”

    Hmm… I don’t like this so much…

    I left the leadership for a handful of reasons. One was the arrogance I described in my interview with TWIL. Another was a desire to jump a sinking ship. Poke around SBC – or even the few threads we pasted over into the hideout – and you’ll find plenty of justification for my disillusionment. As I described in my self-ranking, at this time I was so sick of the politicking situation – that is, the leadership situation – that I was considering leaving MYM altogether. And then… I did. (HIPPO)

    Your tack was always to berate me for handing you the top 50 on a platter. At that time I already didn’t want a top 50 to begin with. I neither read sets nor followed the chat in MYM8. I was in no position to be discussing picks or shifts. And as PC very correctly guessed, I wanted nothing to do with it one way or the other. Frankly, I wanted to join Kibble and Mendez and Chris in escaping from the mess that was leadership before it ceased to even vaguely resemble what it once was.

    At this point it’s out of my hands. Writing my memoirs has cooled my head for the time being, I’m feeling less militant than ever, and I’m content to watch things play out. For the most part, what I wanted has been accomplished, and what hasn’t is on the record.

  9. Shifts shouldn’t be the deciding factor in leadership, that’s something that most people agree on. Leadership should be about actually leading. If the best candidates are in leadership, then it’s up to them to alter the list how they see fit – balancing the leadership around shifts takes away any competitive aspect of leadership. I loathe the idea of rewarding people solely for siding with a particular group.

    PC talked about me taking credit for MYM11, I do not. Neither do I blame MT for MYM8’s failure, as much as I don’t credit myself with MYM7’s success. I do, however, think that a competitive environment gives great incentive for people to do well and aim for leadership, and removing that aspect will result in less activity. That is why MYM8 failed, everyone lost faith in leadership. I feel like centring everything around PKS would do the same.

    This whole thing comes off as trading the dignity of leadership to protect PKS, which most people either want removed or don’t have any strong feelings for. We need better reform than just padding leadership with people who are known to disagree with you, that’s the easy way out.

    I would like to know what the heck you guys are talking about with “stopping me” and a lot of this discussion about me is going right over my head. I’m guessing it has to do with PC’s hate fetish, in which case maybe I’d prefer staying in the dark.

  10. You know PC, if you really want to fight with Smady and the leadership in general why don’t you come back to the chat room where you can actually discuss these things with them. It’s really, really pathetic of you to go off and hide in that new chat room of yours where you only give access to people who you like. If you can’t face those of us who you don’t like there’s no way in hell you’re ever going to convince us of anything or get us to respect you. Maybe you don’t care about that and truth be told it is your right to do what you want, but this is really cowardly of you. That and I honestly miss having you around.

    Obviously, that’s not what all I’m posting here for but I figured I’d use the only contact I really have with PC to say SOMETHING about this.

    Now that out of the way, I really, really think this has gotten way out of hand. I mean, we’re talking about a “corrupt leadership” and such, and this is a contest. About making movesets. For Super Smash Brothers Brawl. You have no idea how darn silly we must appear to the outside world, and truth be told we’re all trying to have fun. When it comes down to stuff like this, we’re no longer having fun, we’re slandering each other and generally creating a bunch of unnecessary hatred. I mean, I was reading some of the stuff that was said in the Hideout, and it’s really unnerving how people will say such terrible things over something so silly and insignificant. I won’t pretend I’m not part of the problem, I’ve said some really nasty things to PC and I am terribly sorry about that. Nor is the leadership entirely innocent, they tend to make the other side out to be monsters as well sometimes.

    Okay, now that I’ve gotten that out of the way, I do like the idea of the expanded leadership, but the problem is we don’t have enough viable candidates right now, what with Rool, Agi, and Junahu being as inactive as they are. I’d really love it if they would step up their game, but I’m not holding out on that. In any case, it’s really just a matter of the people on the other side of this argument keeping far too much to themselves. If Warlord and Rool’s side of the argument were more evenly matched than they are right now maybe the leadership would be less lopsided and so would the way the system works right now. I guess I’m just restating what Warlord is and I do that all the time, so I think I’ll stop here.

    My point is basically, let’s not stress over this sort of thing and instead just try to have fun with this contest. This is for fun, recreation, and we’re turning it into some kind of ridiculously over the top political battle. Everyone calm down and put all this energy into making sets or comments or something. No reason to be so darn hateful.

  11. Smady, I said that wasn’t the reason for my inactivity, and I implied I didn’t think you would claim any sort of responsibility for anything, good or bad. You’d look like an idiot if you did, and you know that. And if there’s one thing you strive for, Smady, it’s to make yourself look good. If you would but read this article, you’d discover that Warlord said a lot of those things, not me. By “this” I was referring to the overall situation the leadership is in now, not you specifically, though I suppose I named you once or twice simply because Warlord did, for that I’m sorry.

    However, Smady, you make it out as if, without the leadership, MYM would crumble. It would be a catastrophe! Nobody would want to MYM without the concept of someone being in charge of them! Well..that really isn’t true. Nobody really cares, at this point. No one is sorry enough to depend upon the leadership for existence, not even Warlord, and I don’t think anyone would become inactive were it to cease to exist. A few might strive to be in leadership, but those same few aren’t now and they’re no less active for it. That, or the people are clearly inactive and so it is obvious that the concept of a leadership has no hold on their participation level.

    And throw names at me if you will, FA, but I left the chat to AVOID these, and other, fights. I alienated myself from those I fight with, because I doubted anyone enjoyed those rousing bouts of shit-slinging(in fact, many complained about it). The sheer fact is, people, your complaints, your mockery, and your insistence on proving yourselves correct, which you seem to believe is possible, is what drove me out of the chat, not my own will. It isn’t that I can’t face you, it is that you do not want to face me, for various reasons, and I recognize that. And I’ll hear no other take on the matter from you. But overall it is for the better – a chat is not a good place for me to hold any debates, and that’s all you seem to want of me. My wit is sharp, people, but not quick, and I need time to collect my thoughts.

    As for the rest of your comments, I’ll say this: FA, you agree this has gotten out of hand, correct? That we’re but a small forum game, yes? Well, you’re talking about having a “leadership” comprised of eight people, and saying we’ve not enough “viable candidates” to put in it. If anything, bloating the leadership is even more ridiculous than getting rid of it, which would at least once and for all cease these pointless ego wars. We’re here to have fun, as you said, and correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think anything the leadership has done has ever increased the amount of fun in MYM.

  12. No, all I’ve said is that we need something to replace leadership with before we take it out. Leadership is not entirely good or entirely bad – this is inarguable, unless you are an extremist [which is silly in a contest like this, as FA points out]. Removing it will have huge and unforeseeable effects – no one can tell what it would do, just as much as one cannot claim to know why people do or think things. In my opinion, leadership does help.

    As far as my opinion goes PC, you do a good job of painting a very negative image, of course entirely paraphrased but I suppose that isn’t unexpected. You say on Hideout that:

    “[there are] a whole horde of Smady and Warlords infesting MYM. Yes, this does happen: Dave, Nick, and FA are proof of it.”

    It is proof of how you hate any freedom of thought in this contest, and want to control it. Lest we not forget that you thought JOE!’s anguish at losing out on the top fifty was something that could be controlled, through propaganda and people simply not caring about the top fifty anymore… which apparently should be leadership’s number one directive. Until we invent some kind of mind control device, I don’t think we can follow through on a lot of your demands. They are pseudo-science levels of wacky.

  13. If you really just want to avoid me from now on PC, go ahead. I just don’t like that you are segregating the community like this, but I admit I feel that when we do fight it never amounts to anything. It’s not fair reason to hide yourself, but if that’s what you want to do go ahead. Might actually be better for the lot of us not to bicker so often anyway.

    And honestly, I really can’t say I care either way on the subject of leadership. Really, I just want this stupid fight to calm down, using whatever the necessary solution is. I seriously would not even care if the leadership is abolished entirely, though I do think it should exist as an example for the community, if perhaps more balanced than it is right now. And I would argue they’ve done plenty of things to make the contest more fun (MYMinis, Fifth leader competition, etc) but blah, depends on your definition of fun. Clearly we should abolish it so the contest will move closer to PC’s definition of fun.

    Either way, both sides of the argument need to stop making such a big freaking deal about this. We don’t need to fight like this.

  14. Oh wow that came out a lot more argumentative than I thought it would. Ugh

  15. I’m actually impressed by this article Warlord. While I haven’t dived into the whole discussion, and really can’t since I’m not in the chat very often, I wanted to share my input on this.

    First of all, I wanted to appreciate what you said about the PKS system. I always had assumed you didn’t care how biased the leadership was towards you as long as the Top 50 looked more like what you wanted it to look like. Seeing you actually lament that the leadership was too friendly to you speaks very well of you.

    Ultimately, I accept that a truly leaderless Make Your Move is impossible, ultimately we need people to tally votes and post the OP. It’s what the entire contest is based around, and I don’t think anyone wants to see a single thread, no competition ‘post movesets here!1’ system.

    Essentially, while I understand and respect your desire to reward activity in general, where I split, and the part of the way the leadership works nowadays that offends me the most is that leadership itself should not be that reward. Leadership is ultimately about responsibilities, and hopefully the ability to make fair and unbiased decisions. And that’s something that is ultimately unrelated to how many movesets you make.

    My ideal leadership would be one where leadership is ultimately decided by what responsibility that you have. It wouldn’t be defined by ‘rewards’ such as chat moderation or the PKS system. Nor do I think that those who are leaders should be explicitly separated from the rest of movesetters. There is a tendency in Make Your Move, especially for newcomers, to default to what the leaders say as a strategy to make progress in the community. But the fact is, pretty much half the community as it is right now has been in leadership at one time or another anyways.

    I’d prefer it if there was a name change that more accurately explained the responsibilities of the team. As far as shifts go, honestly, I’m far less opposed to shifts than I am to picks; the pick system is pretty broken and has had a history of movesets getting knocked off of the Top 50 because of metagames between leaders regardless of the quality of the set itself. The PKS system hails from a different era when we had more entrants and more opportunities for people to enter and enter is ‘non-serious’ or ‘clearly biased’ votes for specific members or for popular series. In the current iteration of the contest though it’s pretty much expected that everyone knows everyone fairly well and there’s a certain expectation of proper behavior from everyone.

    A shift system that I could accept would have to be open. It wouldn’t be the leadership setting out a new Top 50 where most of the community doesn’t know what was originally voted for, and let’s be honest, the vote list is leaked to at least a significant portion of non-leaders every contest anyways. If everyone could see what was going on during shifting, and hell, there could be some discussion with everyone, even non-voting members, then I’d be much more willing to accept the change to the Top 50. Similarly, there needs to be more moderation to the control the leadership has; Top 10 shifts need to have unanimity or even be impossible. As a procedural change as well, we need to fix the fact that each shift is done pretty much in a vacuum. Movesets in the teens that get shifted early on might end up somewhere completely different than where they were originally put. Sometime movesets that were put below another moveset during the tiebreaking process get shifted up higher but the moveset they were put below don’t get moved. Instead of doing it step by step we need some sort of compiling process where all of the contradictions are ironed out to make the decisions consistent. This would mean it would take longer, true, but I don’t think the original system is what Make Your Move needs anymore.

    I understand the importance of compromise, and I’m not going to pretend that I don’t argue extremes or make movesets that spit in the face of what you value sometimes just to watch you squirm, Warlord. You’re far too easy to troll. If I knew how you’d flip over the Diddy comment, I would have said it a long time ago.

  16. @DM: Letting the voters see the shifting process is an interesting proposal that could put more trust in the leadership, DM. The only thing immediately wrong with it is the voters would see the unedited top 50 early. I suppose we could just put the top 50 in a private part of the forum, as they can only infer so much from the shifts if we only talk about how many spots we’re shifting them and not what their ending placings will be.

    I agree that the picks phase has devolved massively at this point and that the system doesn’t work on any level. An alternative I was strongly considering was giving leadership the power to kick sets at 41-50 with only 4/5 majority instead of universal agreement. It might sound like it’s giving more power to leadership, but in reality only 1, maybe 2, sets would get kicked at best, as opposed to the clusterfuck that is the current picks system. In the least, it’d be transparent, something the leadership is in desperate need of.

    @Smady: Did you not miss the part about how I wasn’t kicking people simply because they agreed with me? Otherwise we wouldn’t need to expand the leadership. There obviously isn’t enough time to prepare people for this for the MYM 11 PKS process, but we can work towards getting an 8 man leadership by the MYM 12 PKS. n88 isn’t exactly undeserving of leadership if you hadn’t noticed, giving him leadership is far from a hand out just because “he disagrees with us”. I want to build up just two more MYMers to become on par with him.

  17. Smady, I have never said a word about controlling anything, least of all opinions. What I want is for people to be free to have their own opinions, with no interference at all from other parties. Yes, that includes you and Warlord, and that is why I do not like it when you sway newcomers to your point of view. You may be the only ones who will help them(I would, but who the hell would come to me?), but I would prefer a more neutral position in doing so. So no, what I hate is the control of freedom of thought, not it in and of itself. I never said I wanted to control Joe’s opinion on his placings, I told him he was blowing it out of proportion and that it really wasn’t important enough to flip out over, which I still believe. I believe others told him that it was important. Surely they were also mind-controlling him.

    Also, that line was said a while ago – as you can see from my other posts on the hideout, I no longer think of Dave, at least, as a Warlord clone. FA is much less a clone and more like a begger trying to win favor with the king.

    And FA, maybe you enjoy those fights, but others – Silver, MT, Junahu…most everyone in the chat, it alienates them and makes them uncomfortable. Why should we have the right to force them to put up with us? I wanted to just ignore the lot of you, but that is a bannable offense, and so I left.

    And are you daft, boy? MYMinis were not created for or by the leadership. Actually, they were basically created and used to SPITE it; to show that the leadership need not be involved in everything that happens. Mostly for fun, though. And I don’t particularly want to make a big deal of this; I just want it to end, and the simplest way to do it is to push for the end of the leadership.

    And DM, while I agree somewhat with what you’ve said, I still don’t think we really need a leadership. People have shown that they are fine with, say, Silver and Junahu as Vote Gurus, and MW himself has said here that who is OP is unimportant. People can do those things and still be regular members; there doesn’t have to be some bootleg aristocracy set up specifically for them.

    And I don’t see much point in having a shift process if you’re going to show the raw top 50 anyhow. It just lets us compare our views to the leaders’, and that’s unnecessary. Again, the proposal LoL suggested is the one I back, if indeed you insist on having one. It involves, I believe, the raw top 50 being shown, and people voting to shift sets based on their own views, not the leaders’. You’d have to ask him for more detail, if he even still likes the idea.

    And DM, I have been saying for quite a while that leadership really should not be related to how many movesets or comments you make; that it should tie in more with how you handle responsibility and whether you can make fair decisions. Unfortunately, nobody has listened, and I’m not sure if they’ll listen to you either. As for it relating to the responsibilities…that leaves three spots – the Vote Gurus and the OP, none of which needs any special crown, and any of which could change at the drop of a pin. MYMinis were intended to be free from leadership, and there’s no harm at all in letting them stay that way.

  18. PC clearly did not read what I said at all. That aside I’m responding anyway.

    For what it’s worth, I think we have the same goal here though, we just have different means of going about it. I am a bit disappointed that you won’t settle for anything less than the abolishment of leadership, but I suppose some people will never be happy, and I can understand where you are coming from.

  19. And again, I forget something I wanted to say. I think it may be for the better that you and I avoid each other from now on. The fact is, we’ve never really been able to get along, maybe for short periods of time but then one of us just says something that really offends the other and we’re both back up in arms soon afterwards. I just don’t like the abrupt severing of communication and how I feel that the new chat segregates MYM, but that’s just me.

    I’d prefer it that if we did shut off 95% of communication with each other, at least we wouldn’t hate each other while we did it.

  20. I thought I’d made it clear I wanted nothing to do with you, but apparently you seem to think that your decision to make. I did read what you said, and I responded in kind, encompassing all details I saw fit, so I have no idea what you’re talking about there.

    And I never said I would “settle” for anything at all. I said I liked DM’s ideas, but that there are other alternatives.

    And the new chat does not segregate MYM – Tirk, MW, and Silver are the only ones who dare to brave it. Nobody is hiding from you or talking about you behind your back; it’s just friendly conversation.

  21. Alright then. Bye


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