Posted by: masterwarlord | April 23, 2012

MW Top 13s – Organization XIII

I would say that this list is going to be positive, which is technically true due to these sets being listed with the best ones at the top of the list. However; that wouldn’t be entirely true, as the sets on this list vary so massively in quality that this could not pass for either a top 10 or a top 13. None the less, in a 13 part movement, there’s bound to be lots of hits and misses, and I’m honestly impressed there were as many hits as there were, much less that the whole thing got finished.

13 – Roxas by Kholdstare – XIII

Now, there’s two other sets that are equally generic on this list by the same author, as well as Demyx, so this set has to have some especially prevalent problems to be ranked rock bottom. When I say this moveset is “generic”, I don’t mean by MYM standards, I mean by standards for Brawl itself. Having two moves that do nothing but space Roxas that don’t hurt the foe when he doesn’t have a remotely specific playstyle feels very off – nobody used Zamus’ Down B outside of recovery, imagine having –two- of those. Then, Roxas has a Counter special, making the moveset feel like what Sakurai would do if he was forced to add a third FE character with a sword. There’s one thing in this moveset that Sakurai is undoubtedly above, though – the one attempt to appeal to MYM and stop the genericness in this moveset is in the grab, and it backfires into something tacky that comes across as primarily a way for Khold to just cheat his way out of throws, a common theme in this movement. The moveset in general feels very unsure of itself, and when it has any confidence it’s just boasting about some token comboing that will be done far better in later sets in the movement, including one of Khold’s.

12 – Demyx by FrozenRoy – VIIII

Demyx’s rock-off is pretty painful for the foe’s characterization, yes, as he forces Perches Poxtrot to play his pickaxe like a guitar. That alone would be enough to set off alarm bells, but the really sickening part of the moveset is in Demyx’s mechanic where he forces the foe to destroy his minions within 12 seconds or they die. Instantly. How tacky can you get? Luxord and Marluxia had similar insta kill mechanics in their boss fights that Kat and MT were intelligent enough to remove/nerf from insta kill status, but not here. The sheer lack of explanation for death just sounds more newcomer unfriendly than just about any moveset I’ve seen as far as playing against the foe.

Don’t worry, despite being this low on the list, the moveset has some flow. Demyx can summon some stronger minions that look identical to the regular ones that the foe doesn’t have to kill to save themselves. He also has plenty of pushback moves to stall the foe. He can push foes away from his minions or away from himself, in the event the foe is stupid enough to dare to attack him during these 12 make it or break it seconds. Of course, te rock-off which has to take a decent amount of time to work remotely how FR describes it can stall the foe for an exceptionally long time, whether or not Demyx wins said rock-off. 12 seconds could certainly be number crunched up, but it still comes across very tacky no matter how you look at it, and if number crunched up enough to be remotely not god-tier Demyx would pretty much have to use all of these stalling methods perfectly. It’s what we call conceptually broken.

11 – Axel by Kholdstare – VIII

This is a Khold moveset that attempts to be like Kabutops in introducing some combo stuff to play off of in the Specials, then makes a set full of combo fodder. There are two big problems with that, though, the first being that the stuff to “play off of” is not played off of at all and isn’t particularly interesting by itself. The second is that there isn’t much actual combo fodder beyond the standards, and we get into walls and projectiles that make the set seem like it wants to be a camper regardless of the base introduced in the Specials. In particular, one of Axel’s Specials is a boomerang style move with his weapons, and then there are many more boomerang moves with his weapons throughout the set. I don’t know how Khold keeps managing to make Specials so un-Special when he’s trying to make In-Smash movesets.

10 – Saix by Kholdstare – VII

This moveset being as high as it is feels rather shocking, considering that it was edited in last, had everything but the Specials edited in for a time (Because clearly those should get come up with last and be irrelevant to the set), and Khold said many times that he intended for this moveset to be an Ike clone, a vision which never left his mind based off the numerous references to Ike throughout the set. However; this set has a mechanic which manages to put it above the other three sets on the list that was added with the Specials for me. He has a (Questionably characterized) DBZ-esque fake moon he can stare at to power himself up if he stares long enough. While he won’t turn into a monkey who throws his own shit at foes, he gains an attack speed buff that enables his Ike-esque main moveset to become viable offensively. Until then during the time he has to stare at the fake moon, said HMA moveset can be used more defensively. While chain-grabbing the foe against the fake moon doesn’t excite me directly, doing so as a means of stalling for the fake moon to go up is somewhat interesting. . .Or it would be, if you couldn’t keep chain-grabbing them after you get the power up anyway.

9 – Xaldin by ProfPeanut – III

Xaldin has a base that looks pretty promising, especially considering how good Peanut’s other sets have been this contest. Essentially, he can leave behind his other lances to float in mid-air via his wind powers, then either pick them up momentarily during his attacks, have his lances attack at the same time he does via his smashes, or use them as ammo to create a more sturdy “cage” for his grab. Why the lances don’t do the attacks when put in place on all inputs is beyond me. Balance concerns? Perhaps, but Peanut could just make the lances standing in place actually able to be attacked. Either way, the Smashes come at the end of the moveset and you’re expecting some sort of Junahu style pay-off with Specials last, but there’s none to be found, as the Smashes contribute surprisingly little to the set and come off incredibly underwhelming after having sat through so many inputs. If you’re expecting some use of wind powers in place of his mechanic, there’s not much of that to be found either.

8 – Xemnas by Smashbot226 – I

The concept of a shield that the foe can’t enter but the controlled character can that he can camp through is. . .Sort of unique with how Smashbot utilizes it, making the nothingness blob able to go through anything as Xemnas moves it about at will, as well as using it to cover up the uncharacteristically horrible, horrible lag on almost all of his attacks. That and the fact the foe pretty much can’t do jack to Xemnas while he’s inside of the nothingness feels rather conceptually broken when it’s his core mechanic, and it wasn’t all that interesting to start with. There’s a more interesting concept that beckons back to the original Spadefox in Xemnas’ grab as he forces the foe to reunite with their heartless, blocking the foe from getting to it with his nothingness blob as they take constant poison damage, but the flow with the nothingness is very small and this is far from a emphasized aspect of the moveset. Granted, this mechanic helps to make Xemnas actually feel like he belongs in the series the movement is for, unlike the entirety of the others who feel like generic elementalists of some sort. Still, the grab has no reason to be on a grab and rob Xemnas of throws, and the aerials are all pretty terrible and don’t flow with the set on any level outside an extremely tacky hard interaction on the bair that does nothing when not interacting.

This set of course has a severe case of Smashbot’s writing style as you’d expect, with him outright admitting in one of the moves how long he can go on about a move without stating what it directly does. His conversational writing style is reminiscent of Plorf’s, but while Plorf’s uses conversation as an excuse to not take about the moveset at all, Smashbot uses this writing style to go on and on about nothing like he’s an old man telling a war story.

7 – Xigbar by Smashbot226 – II

Xemnas’ writing style is pretty bad, but next to Xigbar it’s pretty tame. While Smashbot directly states what moves do at the start most of the time in this moveset, the point is that most of the time he could end the move descriptions right there and there wouldn’t be any difference. Smashbot drones on and on about incredibly specific and situational uses of moves after describing them. If you skim even slightly, you’ll drone over the part where you’re reading what the move actually does – blink and you’ll miss it. Even the actual descriptions of the moves themselves are off, though, with how much Smashbot compares almost every single move in the set to another one before explaining the differences.

Needless to say, moves that are constantly comparing themselves to other moves, almost always the jab or one of the Specials, is a pretty bad thing. The moveset having so many projectiles as fodder to send into portals gets pretty boring pretty fast. This has been done a few times before, but as basic as it is the moveset still flows fully for the most part, and it flows into a playstyle that exists but has not been truly focused on before. This moveset would need minimal to be one of the better ones in the movement – it just needs more to differentiate the countless projectiles from one another.

6 – Vexen by Kholdstare – IV

Like Xigbar, this moveset is on the borderline in the massive quality gap of the sets in the movement, but this one edges closer towards the better half of the movesets. Vexen’s mechanic is fairly interesting, and there’s some basic flow in this moveset not to be found in Khold’s others as Vexen supports the data-formed duplicate of the foe with his moveset rather than attacking outright. His passive shield mechanic is pretty cool and adds some spice to his melee moves, enabling him to play defensively to let the duplicate take the brunt of the attacks/gather data to form said duplicate. The ranged attacks, the icy floor, and trapping the foe in ice all work as obvious ways to support the duplicate as well. . .The only problem with that last sentence is that trapping the foe in ice eats up the entirety of the grab. The lack of throws in combination with how Khold doesn’t play off the character nearly as much as he could when it has the most potential of Khold’s character choices by far (Roxas and especially Saix are very difficult to give Khold some credit, and he already made an Axel set) prevents this from being one of the greats.

5 – Lexaeus by ProfPeanut – V

And here we reach the first of the five organization members that I actually truly –like-. Lexaeus takes a very different approach to creating cracks in the middle of the stage via fissures. Outside a single move, they do not cause foes to be shot into the air with massive vertical knockback. They’re actually realistic for most of the set, simply causing foes to trip and take a bit of damage. This, in combination with rock spires Lexaeus can bring up from the earth and shatter to send a flurry of projectiles towards, makes Lexaeus’s standard issue HMA moves far more interesting than they have any right to be, reminding me of such well executed simplistic sets as DM’s Hariyama. While Lexaeus can use these two ranged attacks to aid his approach on the foe, he can use these more defensively as well. No, Lexaeus does not intend to camp forever (He’s rather bad at that) – his motive here is to force the foe to approach as he tries to prepare his set-up in powering himself up via one of his Specials. Whether or not he’s successful, it still brings the foe to him either way to interrupt it if he uses it up against one of his rock spires. If he manages to finish powering up before the foe jumps up over the spire, he’ll be able to demolish it to use it against the foe far better than visa versa.

4 – Larxene by Junahu – XII

The unique combo potential of duplicates and the knives that come back to Larxene (Read: Xaldin should’ve worked more like this moveset) have enough interesting combo potential in and of themselves, but these two aspects in combination with portals really manage to give the “combos” a unique feel when there’s very little to be had outside of utilizing these three things. Even the main moveset which is filled with combo fodder and mostly just serves as various ways for Larxene to bring back her knives takes an interesting twist as it focuses on juggling the foe specifically, a theme very focused on throughout the moveset. While I do like this idea, I find juggling to be somewhat counter-intuitive when the knives that Larxene’s going to draw back to her are on the ground, but she’s not Necky or anything – she’s not getting the foe obnoxiously high into the air, she’s simply keeping them there a while as she whales on them. The flow in this moveset’s a bit sparse, but the versatile combo-feel of the moveset makes it more acceptable.

3 – Marluxia by MarthTrinity – XI

Marluxia is a combo set reminiscent of Gallade, although it does not have to rely on Lucario’s aura mechanic to pull off the versatility aspect of the comboing. There’s very little direct comboing in the moveset, and most of it is done through a large quantity of delayed static disjointed hitboxes that Marluxia can attack normally during. He can also create leaves with many of his regular melee moves to use for his leaf tornado to create a projectile of varying strength, and of course the tornado moves very slowly and Marluxia can move past it. Perhaps most impressive is how, in a big rarity for characters in this genre, MT actually manages to implement the KO method into the main playstyle. Marx puts a “death counter” on the foe that starts at 30, and goes down each time he hits the foe. Upon hitting 0, he teleports behind the foe and does a (dodgable) powerful KO move. Sure, there’s a weird hard interaction that reduces the timer by 11, but when most of the set is so smooth it’s hard to not forgive something like that with how playstyle relevant it is. More importantly, all of Marx’s many delayed hitboxes come into play extensively here, as he sets them up to prevent them from dodging the KO move when the counter hits 0.

2 – Luxord by Katapultar – X

This moveset’s certainly a pretty tacky one, with inputs splattered over the moveset at almost complete random. Regardless of tackiness, it actually completely and utterly flows with almost no filler aside from an awkward grab-game, a shocking development from a Katapultar moveset. Most of the moveset is dedicated to manipulating the positions of cards in/out of the deck in various clever ways. The main moves that you need to take note of are the dash attack, which turns Luxord into a card and lets him hide among them (Actually in Luxord’s boss fight) while still enabling him to do most of his attacks, and his fsmash. His fsmash has the insta death card, yes, but not only does it take a long time to make, it is very obvious where the card is, making it more of a last resort against enemies who just refuse to go down. The main purpose of the fsmash is to reliably produce explosive cards, Luxord’s bread and butter for both damage racking and KOing, as the rest of the cards’ main purpose is simply to obscure the position of his explosive card. This fsmash enables him to get around what looks like an otherwise luck based moveset. Writing style problems? Well, if you’ve been taking a vacation from MYM for a while like Agi, I can understand, but I just came out of reading –XIGBAR- before I had to read this, and it’s honestly a huge improvement for Kat writing style wise, especially given how complicated the subject matter is.

1 – Zexion by ProfPeanut – VI

This moveset is a different step for Peanut’s style where he’s creating a moveset with an actual ambitious playstyle, something rarely seen in the past from him. Taking on a concept as infamous as duplicates sounds like an obvious plan for disaster, but Peanut manages to pull it off. Not only are there duplicates of Zexion himself, but there are duplicates of his spellbook as well. While many of the moves in the moveset function differently if a duplicate is wielding the real spellbook in ways that make it obvious which one is real, Zexion has a (Very tacky) utilt that enables him to make the fake spellbooks do these effects rather than the real one, creating all the more headache-inducing mindgames for both the enemy and Zexion. Aside from duplicating the –weapon-, what really sets this apart from other duplicate sets is incorporating very well a concept I’ve been wanting to see done in duplicates set for a long time – having the duplicates deal fake damage to the foe and having damage dealt to duplicates deal fake damage to the duplicates character. Peanut takes full advantage of this, showcasing how much he’s endorsing the wackiness in this moveset, by being able to use his pummel to turn fake damage on the foe into real damage, further mindfucking them while also giving further purpose to the duplicates. There’s pretty much no filler in this set after Peanut went out of his way to edit the grab-game to make it as good as he could, and that utilt is one of very few tacky moves in the set- for the most part it’s quite possible to envision a newcomer playing this set without doing that many fancy tricks.

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Responses

  1. Awesome to get high up on a positive list, but have you seen the edited grab game of Luxord’s, Warlord? I wouldn’t necessarily call the new one awkward, but I’m fine with where I am on this list either way.

  2. I find myself largely agreeing with this list(of the sets I’ve read anyway), though I do feel Larxene is better than Marluxia. In most cases you justify your reasoning pretty well, even when I do find the set in questionnot really appealing to me.

  3. You forgot the best Organization XIII moveset of them all

    http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9140168&postcount=320

    • Ohoho. Forgot about that fellow.


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