Posted by: Junahu | June 11, 2012

Roundtable Review – Cryogonal

[Original Moveset here]

David: Ah, hello. I didn’t see you come in. We’re going to be roundtabling Cyrogonal, I’m Davidreamcatcha and with me is the ragtag team of Junahu, Geto, FrozenRoy and Katapultar. Opening thoughts, anyone?
Junahu: Quick and to the point… I like that. But yes, Cryogonal.
Geto: Ah yes, that lovable mechanical snowflake from the 5th Gen
Junahu: Mechanical snowflake? That’s certainly one way of looking at it
Kat: A possible fun fact, is that the Professor made this set out of a bet he did with Smady. I don’t know the details, but he had to do a One-Day Pokeset of which was probably responsible for the unique tone of writing.
David: That’s actually one of the first things I wanted to talk about – the moveset really does have a unique way of writing it’s attacks, I’m somewhat torn on it but it does exactly what it needs to do: it gets key details of most of the attacks out clearly.
Geto: I’m actually a big fan of what he’s done here. It’s a pretty unconventional way to present a moveset, to say the least.
Junahu: I was hoping we could talk about what this style of writing… represents, in relation to the character itself. I doubt this style was merely out of a want to be different.
Kat: I tend to think that the Professor’s style of writing, while fun, isn’t done SPECIFICALLY for the Pokemon in question…though I may be wrong. I do feel a hint of snark within at times, as if the Professor is wee bit distraught at having to make the set in the first place.
Geto: I do see Cry as some sort of Mechanical….thing. I think there’s even a visible gear on the back, though that could just be a shadow. I think he may have seen the possible robotic element too.
Junahu: Personally, I see the segmented structure of the moveset as being connected to the facetted nature of a snowflake, clearly structured and patterned, but uniquely split apart
David: Junahu has proven himself to be one of those people who look at a red carpet and say “he didn’t buy it because it’s red, he bought it because it represents his inner fire”. As Kat pointed out, if this was a one-day effort then it’s a time to experiment. This does seem like a highly experimental writing style – we haven’t exactly seen anything like this before.
Geto: To be fair, that red carpet is fabulous.
Junahu: I just find it hard to believe that the writing was for no other reason than to have different writing, if there was no “reason” then at least there must have been a spark, or inspiration to make the set ‘pop’ the way he did.
Geto: Prof has always been really good at choosing a good tone to fit his movesets. This is no accident.
Kat: As much as there is to fascinate about the writing, one cannot expect to fully comprehend the entirety of the set just with such. We of course have to talk about the actual attacks themselves of which the Professor is trying to portray. The writing is only the tip of the iceberg.
Junahu: 6_6 awww, but I wuv my aesthetics and nitpicklitude.
Geto: And true as it may be that the writing here is unique, we still haven’t even gotten into the actual set itself, as tempting as debating the stylistic choices of an MYMer may be.
David: Quite right. Let’s delve into the set itself then. Quick question about the Neutral Special: does he ever mention the haze letting up? Obviously it should last longer since he’s sacrificing his health.
Junahu: Quick answer, the haze is reabsorbed while he is in it, though seemingly not in any other circumstance. So it hangs around until he absorbs it (by being inside it)…. I guess that was not a quick answer at all..
Kat: I do not believe it is ever outright mentioned that the haze is absorbed back into his body, though it would not be of surprise to think that does happen, given the logic of the situation…I never interpreted it as such though.
David: The haze is “receded”, which I assume is fancy talk for just being absorbed back into himself.
Kat: I don’t even know what recede means. I just assumed it meant to spread out. Still a learning boy I guess.
Junahu: Sorry for the random detour, but I want to ask. Does anyone else feel Cryogonal is a bit odd having a 9/10 for ground movement speed?
Geto: Yeah, I would think he’s more slow and graceful, like a real snowflake would be.
Junahu: It seems to be extrapolated from Cryogonal’s in-game Speed, which is fairly high. Though it is always debatable whether that means he can move fast, or if he can attack quickly.
David: I can’t really offer much on the aspect of the actual Pokemon games, but it does not seem like he shouldn’t be moving that quickly judging from the header image. Definitely seems bulkier.
Geto: Just a little nitpick, too, but 5/10 seems a little small, too.
Kat: I’ve always thought of the Pokedex descriptions as my Bibles to the Pokemon world. Hmmm, but, the logic in Mr. Pokemon moving so fast…this is something not taken just by looking at the character, physique and all.
Junahu: Personally, I’d be fine with simply a nerf to ground movement, at least that’d encourage more floating through the air like a snowflake.
Geto: Bah, this is getting into number crunching.
Junahu: CRUNCH!
Rool: *too dead to offer witty rebuttal*
David: The floating aspect definitely seems fitting, of course. Also, on the subject of Geto: 5/10 is like Mario, right?
Geto: Mario is smaller than a 5. I believe he’s more a 3, at least according to JOE!’s moveset stats of stattery.
David: It seems fine, then (WARY)
Junahu: so, back to the topic at hand?
Kat: Moveset, moveset. Why don’t we talk about the base concepts themselves, the part people probably want to read….or know about what we think.
David: Of course. It seems like a very stage control-y set and does remind me of the likes of Aisling and Weston (the former of which is even referenced in the nspec)
Junahu: As far as I could tell, Cryogonal fits very snugly into the various tropes that have become synonymous with ice users; spreading a winter wonderland across the stage, abusing lowered traction etc.
Geto: I’ve also notices that, at least towards the beginning, he deals very little no no knockback at all. More of a wintry-wonderland slip’n’slide way to move foes around, maybe?
Kat: One could interpret Crygonal as the King of Mystery, messing with people lost in the icy mountains of which I’m seriously starting to sound like Rool or Junahu here.
Junahu: teehee. Oh you ❤
Junahu: I certainly feel like the “slip-n-slide” (is that what you kids are calling it these days?) elements are kind of on the back foot, compared to the idea of, as Kat said, “messing with people on the mountain”. It’s a little less about comical skidding about, and more about unbalancing the foe, making them feel insecure in the misty haze.
Geto: We kids today like our non-sensical terms to call our playstyle tropes, thank you very much.
David: Froy seems dead.
Kat: If you mean the kid Warlord or FA then yes, slip-n-slide. Me being the Pokedex man, I would actually think this playstyle to be more fitting to Froslass. (a set totally made in MYM3)
Geto: Yes, there are a lot of mindgaming type attacks, it’s a set that makes the foe feel very uncertain and even paranoid about continuing the attack.
David: Something regarding one of the moves in the set, is the Confuse Ray at all pokemon-syndromey? It just doesn’t feel like something it would be doing, though as said, I’m not big on the series.
Junahu: Well, bringing up that “all important” move list, Cryogonal does indeed use a lot of manipulative sounding moves, mists and hazes and reflective surfaces and rays that confuse. I think the idea behind them is to explore Cryogonal’s refractive surfaces, the way they play with the light, etc. Solarbeam in particular (on the move list) indicates him playing with light.
Kat: Not that there’s much light to reflect off, hehe. It’s more so just taking from the meta rather than the creature itself known as Crygonal. There is no information, if any, in the set regarding the nature of the character such as Crygonal changing with the temperature. I remember when I attempted to make a set for Crygonal, and got it nearly done where it revolved around mist that takes from your body and stuff like ice walls of which would be a broken investment nowdays.
Geto: Yes, this was obviously a set made less for the “Pokemon” and more for the monster used by more hardcore serious players. Contrast that to Gardevoir, which was teeming with personality.
Junahu: Perhaps the impersonal nature of Cryogonal fits with him, perhaps.
Geto: The writing style, going back to the beginning of the discussion, also suggests a very impersonal nature. The style lends itself to very little personality.
David: Well, obviously. Pokemon? Personality? (HEHE)
Geto: Don’t make me beat you, dave #slap
Junahu: Strangely fitting. Given the old adage “no two snowflakes look alike”, yet all snowflakes still do the same thing in the end. (#old man ramble)
Geto: Woah, dood, that’s like, really deep, man.
Kat: Speaking of depth, anyone care to fess up on the concepts, playstyle, flow, any of that lot?
Geto: Nice transition, Kat.
Junahu: I’ll defer that business to the more qualified men in our midst
Kat: Why thank you.
FrozenRoy: I’m here now! I actually had to download Google Chrome to get this to work.
Geto: Well, Froy, since you’ve missed all the fun thus far, care to give a little insight as to your views on the set?
David: Froy, you weren’t eaten by Warlord after all (vampire)
FrozenRoy: I’m not delicious enough.
FrozenRoy: But as for the set…I think it is pretty neat for what it is. The organization was the best part. It made me think of lightly falling snow and sort of like a gentle poem or something. Though it appears we are on how Cryo plays right now…
Geto: Woah, that’s like, really deep, man.
Kat: Crygonal’s Specials give us a set that revolves around mindgames. That wouldn’t be much on its own, but the selling point here is that Crygonal can fire off an invisible beam (in the mist) that can mess with the opponent’s controls and send them scrambling without their consent.
Geto: Cry is very much written in the views that Cry is a predator in it’s natural habitat.
David: It certainly harkens back to the days of Jafar, especially the way you describe it, Kat.
Junahu: Don’t forget about invisible grabs, flying eyes, and barriers that can fire off beams by themselves.
FrozenRoy: I really like Aurora Beam as a move, by the by. Really fun manipulation of control there.
Junahu: I was certainly surprised by how Aurora Beam was interpreted, until now I never put much thought into what an Aurora Beam actually was.
David: Blergh. I have finals tomorrow and need to get some sleep. Can anyone take care of putting this on the Bunker (wary)
Geto: I cannot, but good luck with your pathetic school finals.
FrozenRoy: I can’t, but I’m sure someone can, Dave. And yeah, good luck.
Junahu: I assume it’s on me then. *sigh*
David: Jun saves the day again (vampire) Seeya, then. (bye)
FrozenRoy: Junman is the best super hero.
Kat: The set effectively revolves around the mist cloud itself. It’s a little under-elaborated, though, or at least to a degree.
Junahu: I’ll admit, I’m a bit of a fan of under elaboration. So long as the tone and function is set, a lot of readers are flexible enough to fill the holes themselves.
FrozenRoy: The mist doesn’t really seem like it needs much elaboration. It’s a mist, it covers stuff. Heals you, damages you to make, all the needed info is there. I suppose some other points perhaps could be elaborated on some more.
Geto: I like the under-elaboration, it gives the set a bit of a mysterious and dangerous air to it. Like it’s a list a hiker would have on the dangers of the fearsome Cryogonal. For all it’s under-personality, it comes across as very…wait for it…cold.
FrozenRoy: That’s a neat idea, Geto. Imagining the organization like some kind of brouchure or hiker’s trail thing, warning of the danger’s ahead.
Junahu: A lot of this keeps winding back to that organisation.
Geto: The presentation is what MAKES this set for me, really. It kept me very invested and without it I probably wouldn’t think as highly of it.
FrozenRoy: I am pretty much with Geto there. The organization is really what draws you in and lets you appreciate the ideas presented, I think.
Junahu: I think we might have to get back to talking about playstyles, moves and such
Geto: Every party needs a pooper that’s why we invited you, party pooper.
Junahu: Believe me, no one enjoys a good presentational style more than I…
FrozenRoy: On the subject of moves, did anyone else really dislike Recover on this? Might as well list something bad too!
Junahu: The Back-Air? Yeah, I found that to be a bit oddly placed for a move that moves your mist around.
Kat: I am going to have to leave at this point – my dog requires a walk and so do I.
FrozenRoy: I think it was the BAir. I couldn’t remember, though. It didn’t move the mist around though, Jun? It healed him, I thought.
Geto: 1) seeya round Kat. 2) Yes, the Bair sucks. Literally. It really sucks. Or sucks harder than normal. The mist, I mean.
FrozenRoy: And bye Kat!
Junahu: It does heal him, but the Bair also attracts mist to him.
Junahu: And then there were three..
Geto: weeooohhweeeee. wah wah wah….
FrozenRoy: That’s even worse. Why would Recover attract mist, I wonder? Perhaps it is trying to add the substance of the mist to itself?
Junahu: The mist is technically made of his own…. juices? I guess?
Geto: Haha! Dangly parts.
FrozenRoy: That’s right, the first moveset based around masturbation, right here.
Geto: But seriously, i think it has more to do with “recovering” the health he’s lost, as sucking in mist recovers his health. It also stalls his already slow fall, aiding in his actual recovery. Double meanings, I love ‘em!
FrozenRoy: I suppose. The move definitely felt very awkward, though.
FrozenRoy: Aside from that…I thought there was some neat stuff with Confuse Ray(Down Spec, I think?) and Aurora Beam/Side Special. I think it has a bit of a sophistication to how it does that…but the rest of the moveset isn’t really as interesting, is it?
Junahu: Cryogonal fires beams at his foe… like a sir
Geto: Cryogonal is of course one of the knights of movesettery: the knight of Ice!
FrozenRoy: How cool.
Junahu: (removed due to technical issues)
Geto: That is the single most intellectual thing ever to be said about a moveset, and spoken as beautifully as ever.
FrozenRoy: Why can’t all comments be like that?
Junahu: I don’t think I’ll ever have such a moment of brilliant clarity again.
Geto: And at least everyone gets to read it.
Junahu: Sadly though, we must move on… and actually say things about the moveset.
Geto: I think we’re actually close to the point where we should wrap up. (CHEW)
FrozenRoy: How terrible! And I just got the moveset up.
FrozenRoy: I did sort of want to say something, though. Mostly because I missed the characterization part, heh
Junahu: Feel free to talk away
FrozenRoy: Characterization-wise, aside from the organization and stuff even, the style makes me think sort of like a Jack Frost type. The myth, not the moveset. Almost toying with the foe with tricks and stuff, playing around in the frost and snow and bringing chill, but then turning out to be a lot worse with stuff you wouldn’t see coming…or something. I dunno, something I thought of earlier.
Junahu: Actually, that reminded me of something. I think Cryogonal is a Pokemon lost in its own vanity in a sense. There is that random piece of poke-trivia about him being one of the only genderless pokemon to learn Attract… which has no effect when used by genderless pokemon.
Geto: Certainly a fitting trait for a snowflake. All are unique and beautiful…of course they would be vain and egotistical about their looks.
FrozenRoy: You are NOT a unique and special snowflake!
Junahu: awwww. I’m not? *pout*
Geto: Of course you are, Juney! (hug)
Junahu: (this hug was censored)
Geto: (hello)
FrozenRoy: You know, another characterization thing…it makes even more sense for Cryogonal to create it’s own mist when you see that gear and think of it as an artificial snowflake. So of course it would make it’s own artifical winter wonderland.
Junahu: such a superficialocitous, viscous pokemon
Geto: There goes Redd White, spouting off big words again.
FrozenRoy: And to think it’s only the preantepenultimate comment.
Geto: I also liked this set.
Junahu: So, are we ready to close out, with some final words?
Geto: I think so.
FrozenRoy: I’m game for that. Let’s see…
Junahu: I likely say something to this effect every roundtable, but I found Cryogonal to be a fun, different experience, and one of my favourites this MYM. Of course, that kind of statement lacks the bite it used to… but I stand by it. It has a good balance between accessibility, and depth, with a healthy dose of logical functionality too. The writing is uniquely engaging, and the ideas introduced at a pleasant pace. I always felt ProfPeanut was especially talented at making well balanced sets that feel real enough to see working, but still have a hook or two to make the act of playing more engrossing and fun. A great, standout Pokeset.
Geto: Cryogonal is a fun, entertaining set that presents itself very well. The more we look into it, we can see immense traces of good, strong characterization that lends itself well not only as a piece of writing, but a good playstyle as well. Prof is among my favorites of the up-and-coming new generation of movesetters, as he always, always, ALWAYS delivers. I haven’t seen a set by him I haven’t liked, and this is no exception. A jolly good show, old boy.
FrozenRoy: Cryogonal cryo-froze my internet like some english beef there. But anyway, final words…Cryogonal is a good set whose primary strength is not the moves, but a deep and interactive, perhaps even accidental, characterization behind a pretty unique form of organization. It certainly takes a different direction on ice sets, in it’s own way, especially compared to other ice sets made this MYM like Jeanne and Gray. Perhaps it’s weakness is many attacks which seem a bit weak, but Cryogonal remains interesting with it’s sohpisticated form of mindgaming, I feel. And given that one of your favorites comments, Jun, what is your favorite so far, if I may ask?
Junahu: My favourite is.. totally a secret
FrozenRoy: You card you.
Geto: Good marks from all, I suppose. As always, this is Getocoolaid, signing off. (pce)
Junahu: And this is Junahu… bye (hugs)
FrozenRoy: And finally, this is FrozenRoy, off to chill with his icy brethern. Ciao! (Nine)
Junahu: I’m sure Kat and Dave also send their farewells and positive regards. Until next time then!

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Responses

  1. How much did David vandalize this review?

    You couldn’t talk less about the moveset in this roundtable if you tried.

    Please do not post a xat session as a roundtable again.

    This is an automated message. Do not reply.

    -Warlord Inc.

    • It is the opinion of Rool Co. that this is an excellent roundtable that, despite some silliness throughout, achieved a number of truly interesting observations about both the moveset and the Pokemon itself.

      Furthermore, Warlord Inc’s unmitigated negativity remains a point of serious concern for us and we would greatly appreciate the immediate cessation of all such activity.

      Lastly, we take offence to all mentions of our own name in the preceding roundtable, no matter how benign or well-intended they may have been.

      Despite our present bankruptcy, we remain

      Yours truly,

      Rool Co.

      This is an automated message sent in response to a Warlord Inc reply to a roundtable review. Kindly do not reply.

  2. This is one of the past sets I remember vividly as well, too. We really do need to record another one of those Skype roundtables.

  3. Warlord: An opinion that isn’t mine? I must criticize.

  4. Clever choice of anon.

    There is no opinion here to critique. This roundtable was a bunch of stumbling and flailing the entire way through. Doesn’t help David vandalized the terrible review further.

  5. I know that he didn’t vandalize anything past when I came on and I don’t think he did anything in it. You’d have to ask him.

    I think the opinion is relatively shared and fairly clear. Cryogonal is a set that has some cool mindgame-y tricks, such as Aurora Beam, the U-Tilt and Confuse Ray, alongside some somewhat standard, even boring at times perhaps, moves elsewhere, but the set has a cool organization and a characterization that is surprisingly deep and multi-faceted for a Pokemon. I think I’m content with that as a roundtable, aside from perhaps that we should have decidedly discussed the negative points deeper.

  6. I almost want to not reply to that because of how fucking good it was. Well played, Rool Inc.

    But yes, most of these are observations about the character, not the moveset itself, and they still can’t come up with an actual link between the organization and the character for the stupidly long amount of time they spend on it.

    Your business associates, DM and Jun, are the ones spreading mass negativity about movesets currently. This is showcasing how far behind the times you are.

    • I’d thank you not to mention my name in any paranoid delusion fantasies. Especially ones I’ve never even heard of.

      I think anyone with eyes can read Cryogonal and know what the set is about. It’s a very clear, very accessible set. I don’t see the deal with trying to be a bit more meta, and exploring functions and aspects of the character that could have, and probably did have, a major bearing on how the set was made.

      Besides, the only person whose opinion matters here, is the person we made this roundtable FOR. Not you, not me, not Rool Inc. But ProfPeanut.

  7. I realize that Roundtable Reviews tend to spend real long times talking about characterization, what have you. I like characterization, but not to the depth mentioned in this Roundtable and would have gladly talked about the playstyle and base concepts some more if my dog were not threatening to eat the stuffing from my couch – after all, you can’t have playstyle without character and vice versa. My opinion of this set differs from the 3 who managed to finish the review in that the organization, writing style and certain characterizational aspects of the set do not deserve as much credit as they are given – here they feel a bit too sugarcoated for my liking and try to convince outside readers of this set’s merits with this method only, leaving the likes of concepts and flow as little more than an afterthought. There are interesting concepts for a one-day set, if executed in a not-so superfluous manner and could have been given to a much more suitable Pokemon like Froslass, as I mentioned in the review itself.

  8. Everyone keeps calling it “Rool Inc.” when it’s clearly “Rool Co.” >_<

  9. http://smashboards.com/threads/make-your-move-12-now-with-accurate-title-mym12-is-closed-mym-13-is-open.318151/page-15#post-14479639

    Posting a link to the moveset because I’m reminding people it exists, and yet this page has no link to the moveset

    • Gonna try and get in touch with Jun and see if they can stick a link to the thing in the body of the article itself.

      also wow this is cringe-worthy on my part my apologies to everyone

    • And now there’s a link, and y’all look like crazy people.

      All according to plan


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