Posted by: darthmeanie | September 2, 2012

Unwarrented Ramblings — Clayton

I first read Clayton a while ago actually, but I didn’t feel that a comment alone was sufficient to express my feelings on this set. The fact of the matter is, this set deserves attention on every aspect, and a full blown review article seemed like the best way to express my feelings to this regard.

 

We’ll start from the beginning, as that is the usually best place to start. The introduction for your character is somewhat rambling and doesn’t really establish what he’s like except for generic gluttony and greed, but I’ll let that slide for the most part. Even a hint towards what purpose Clayton moves towards with his incredible greed would have been nice though. The bigger problem is when we get to the stats section; I understand that Clayton is a heavyweight male antagonist but that hardly makes him as tall, wide, and heavy as Bowser is. It strikes me as utterly ridiculous to have a normal if obese human outweighing and outsizing Donkey Kong, Ganondorf, Charizard and Samus.

 
The specials is where we start to get into the real problems though. Honestly, I am truly baffled how your best idea to use the coins for was as a simple stage obscuring obstruction. It’s so counter-intuitive and doesn’t relate to what you’ve established as his character either. The mechanic is also horribly ham-handed in how you approach it; the increased falling speed is meant for pushing opponents down with coins off the stage, but you could have made it a simple push effect instead of this awkward falling speed increase. As it is this isn’t much different than my Abomasnow’s snow mechanic from MYM6+7 but less smoothly implemented.

 

But that’s not enough because these coins create such a massive dichotomy in your characterization. You establish him immediately as incredibly greedy, but he can apparently create massive amounts of money in a short period of time just by having his Meowth use Pay Day. Alright then, so he doesn’t really need to cheat or steal for that. But despite you clearly establishing that Meowth’s money is valuable when you mention him as an income source and him shouting “I’m Rich,” in his up tilt, the primary use of the coins is to hide… and dump them offstage. I can’t be the only person who sees a contradiction in his motivation when he’s creating money just to throw it away. And this is an Original Character for crying out loud, so you had to actually work to make him self-contradictory.

 
We then move onto the Down Special, the closest thing we have to a functional part of this set, and that’s because you don’t control it for the most part and is the closest the set gets to being able to actually fight enemies effectively rather than the ineffective game of cowering and hoping opponents play right into your telegraphed traps you insist on. I dislike the switching mechanic though, and it seems very awkward to use as a double tap and assumes that that won’t interfere with other mechanics. I think it would be much better to use it so that you can recall and resummon Ditto at-will, because as it is, Ditto is stupidly vulnerable to getting gimped right from the beginning, as any Ice Climbers main will tell you. Even Larfleeze had some mechanics to help prevent his minions from being killed, Ditto is just helpless. And the whole real point of Ditto, besides defense, is to confuse the opponent about who they are. First of all, there are indicators displaying player above each character’s head, which should remove a lot of confusion unless Ditto somehow duplicates this too. And even then, it’s a very upsetting mechanic from a meta-perspective, as if Clayton somehow expected the opponent to have this out of body perspective for the match. An actual person fighting Clayton wouldn’t have any trouble distinguishing him from his opponent, so why build an entire metagame around that concept?

 
Moving on further to the Up Special, I at least have to credit you for not making ripped out stage chunks not be another terraforming mechanic, but it lacks some essential details, for example, if using the zair actually brings them to the top of the thrown rocks like a ledge grapple or makes him swing beneath them or what have you, details that would help visualize the moveset. The teleporters themselves are a little awkward, simple details like say, how big a teleporter is and how much you have to be stepping on it for it to be effective. These kinds of details are important. Also, you missed a detail on a key interaction; exactly how does the Dynamite and terraforming affect your teleporters? Or perhaps dynamite is teleported when it lands on a teleporter? It seems pretty clear you didn’t think that out.

 
In addition to that, I want to point out that you incredibly overestimate the sturdiness of Machoke and how much opponents are supposed to avoid him. 100% damage is really nothing, a few charged smashes will do that much on most characters. This wouldn’t be so bad if he wasn’t completely defenseless, had super armor, and every time you use him he spends a full second preparing during which most players can get at least two attacks off. And who’s going to stop them? Ditto who’s hiding away? Or Clayton who’s also hiding away? And once they do rid the stage of Machoke, that takes away… your recovery and most of your KO moves. So the opponent has no reason not to immediately take him down whenever you have him do anything. Triple his stamina and throw in some sort of counter attack he has and I’ll talk to you about being nigh invulnerable.

 
And onto the dynamite, lo this is a mess. It took me a while to decide where to start with this, but I’ll start with the range. I see you’re still sticking to Battlefield Platforms despite them being clearly an inferior unit of measurement, and it shows in your choice of having a two battlefield platform range; Clayton literally has to be offstage to toss a stick of dynamite in the center of Battlefield. Note for the future, not every stage is Final Destination. Furthermore, it’s terraforming again, and I’ve clearly specified my opinion on that as an element of movesets. But the problem isn’t just that it’s impossible to actually implement and incredibly awkward, it’s the fact that movesets that use it as a focus tend to be very flow-charty and incredibly stage dependant, and Clayton is an excellent example of both problems. Now, I understand that not every set is going to be great or even necessarily playable on every single stage, and I don’t ask for that. Hanenbow, New Pork City, Mushroomy Kingdom and Summit clearly aren’t designed to be balanced and you shouldn’t have to balance for that. But when a stage like Delfino Plaza, Lylat Cruise, Norfair, Pokemon Stadium, or any other common and mostly balanced stage, even for competitive, completely causes you to fall apart, you need to return to the drawing board. Depending on the stage he may never be able to make a hole in the stage (Yoshi’s Island, a NEUTRAL) or not even be able to make a pit on account of the thickness or lackthereof of the stage. And as far as his stage problems go, he literally has no answer whatsoever to any enemy on a platform above him with his terrible jumps, inoffensive up aerial and entire assumption that opponents will just wade through teleporters and coins instead of jumping over them. Why MYM in general is expected to gloss over these kinds of innate problems and not disapprove of the set’s inability to be effective except on some specific stages is beyond me.

 

Moving on to the standards now, and you start with a move that does nothing but healing on the down tilt, an incredibly awkward input, and then proceed to immediately justify it by saying you don’t have other moves that don’t do damage, followed by a move that doesn’t do damage in the forward tilt. And it is the worst animation for a move I’ve ever seen. We’re going to have a conversation about what characterization means right now. One of the most important things to have in characterization is self-consistency, that the character is the same guy throughout the moveset. His behavior is the same thematically regardless. You’ve already violated this by his completely contradictory behavior with his money, and now you’ve done the same with how he fights. For the rest of the moveset, he seems to be more or less specifically fighting the opponent. Flinging opponents with chicken skin is not something someone does in the middle of the fight. The animation very much suggests an accidental sort of attack, which completely contradicts the whole point of it being, you know, an attack that you input with the A button. And the entire attack doesn’t make any internal sense, chicken skin flinging opponents more than halfway across battlefield but dealing no damage? It reeks of being built specifically for what it would do for the playstyle and being shoehorned in, and it’s obvious that’s just what you were doing.  The Dash Attack is similarly incomprehensible, leaving a Kirby-high trail of sweat and a hitbox that primarily hits behind him? And that it stuns as hard as a paralyzer to get hit by a fat man? It’s ridiculous.

 

The Forward Smash I’m afraid is incredibly telegraphed and requires the opponent to be on the bottom of the ground to get hit, and is most of your KO potential. If an opponent happens to be just standing on a platform, like every single stage besides Final Destination or the Bridge of Eldin has, well, they’re completely invulnerable to it! At least with smashes that or actually performed by the player you can hit players who are also on a platform. There’s also the problem of the fact that both it and the Up Smash aren’t performed anywhere near Clayton, leaving him more defenseless than he already is.

 

The aerials as well, unsurprisingly, leave him with absolutely no options to deal with an opponent near him, leaving poor Clayton completely helpless to any attempt to juggle outside of a Hail Mary Up Special while knocked offstage. He has no remotely fast aerial option to counter an opponent, even Ganondorf has his Up Aerial. Speaking of Up Aerials, your Up Aerial is yet another one of those no damage moves you claim not to have, and feels so awkward alongside the rest of the moves as a status effect out of nowhere, if at least one that exists in-game, but I’m not a fan of a special in one set being entirely improved as an aerial in one where it’s a footnote.

 
Finally we get to the throws, where you make an Escape Rope boring by making it just a normal rope but with obscenely good grab stats and the only real thing that makes Clatyon remotely playable. The throws are, in your grand tradition, ridiculously overcomplicated, although I actually do like the Up Throw. I also think the Neutral Aerial should function more like the Forward Throw rather having two completely different ways to throw Meowth.

 
In the end though, Clayton doesn’t really do anything interesting. The playstyle is an incredibly straightforward flowchart that can be summed up as use incredibly vulnerable minions to set up, make a hole in the stage if it’s actually possible on the stage I’m on, hope the opponent doesn’t know how to do a remotely competent aerial approach, that there are no platforms he can use, no projectiles that I have absolutely no answer to and instead hope that they just leave me alone, somehow land a series of telegraphed attacks, the two main ones that he uses to stun opponents (Forward Smash and Dash Attack) are preceded by obnoxious shouts that make the entire hiding game completely moot, and somehow get a KO. This set is simply bad. It doesn’t function. Even if did function, it wouldn’t be interesting because it’s such a complete flowchart of a playstyle. I’m told this set is liked, and I really can’t understand what element could possibly attract anyone. It’s an Original Character that can’t stay consistent with itself, much less the existing Brawl engine, has more flaws and weaknesses than Ganondorf, and a playstyle that gives him even less options. I’m really left with two conclusions Warlord; either you weren’t taking this set remotely seriously, or you’re legitimately bad at this. If you have another explanation, offer it. But I simply couldn’t express how bad this set was in the thread and have enough space.

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Responses

  1. Good lord, that dash attack.

    To be fair, Warlord apparently made the moveset in one night or some similar restricted space of time. While it’s not an excuse for a lot of the things seen in the moveset, he does break some new ground with how the pokemon are controlled, if not borrowed from Iron Tail – it’s a good basis that could be easily expanded on if given more time, and that aspect, at least should be praised. There are some positive things about the moveset, though yes, a few things you have to say in this review are legitimate complaints.

    But something that needs to be touched on in your part, DM, is your assuming this set is “well-liked”. Going by what’s in the thread: Katapultar despises it. While WOMF, FA and Froy seem more positive, their comments do bring up a lot of the negative (and their is a lot of terribly awkward negatives in the set) – and no, I don’t think opinions stated in the chat should be taken as actual set opinions. It’s not a major factor and doesn’t really detract from the review much, but it’s something that seemed a bit curious to me. Perhaps do a little more research next time?

  2. Ah, I couldn’t ask for a better birthday present from you, DM. An actual in-depth comment rather than hiding behind generalizations and assumptions that you are credible enough to generically state things are “bad” without saying why. I’d sooner you get these things out in the open than liking a set well-enough before manufacturing reasons to dislike something later in soundbyte format.

    We’ll start from the beginning, as that is the usually best place to start. The introduction for your character is somewhat rambling and doesn’t really establish what he’s like except for generic gluttony and greed, but I’ll let that slide for the most part. Even a hint towards what purpose Clayton moves towards with his incredible greed would have been nice though.

    The main thing I do with OC descriptions is to just state their history as quickly as possible, simply because you can’t go look up the character elsewhere for more information, but I don’t want to delay readers to getting what they came for, the set. This set’s background was especially quick, and I left the personality is typically more implied through the attacks, stuff like the chicken, the boisterous shouts, the slave labor that you all hate. I thought this was one of my sets with a strong sense of characterization.

    The bigger problem is when we get to the stats section; I understand that Clayton is a heavyweight male antagonist but that hardly makes him as tall, wide, and heavy as Bowser is. It strikes me as utterly ridiculous to have a normal if obese human outweighing and outsizing Donkey Kong, Ganondorf, Charizard and Samus.

    Characters are divided within their tiers for weight and what-not – I would assume he is lesser than Bowser, but I will stand by him being above the rest. Width is much more important for size than height, as Ganondorf is below all of the monstrous wide characters in terms of size, even Charizard. As far as weight, DK is the only one I could really see being argued as heavier, but he’s upsized from his game appearances into Brawl anyway.

    The specials is where we start to get into the real problems though. Honestly, I am truly baffled how your best idea to use the coins for was as a simple stage obscuring obstruction. It’s so counter-intuitive and doesn’t relate to what you’ve established as his character either. The mechanic is also horribly ham-handed in how you approach it; the increased falling speed is meant for pushing opponents down with coins off the stage, but you could have made it a simple push effect instead of this awkward falling speed increase. As it is this isn’t much different than my Abomasnow’s snow mechanic from MYM6+7 but less smoothly implemented.

    I don’t see how it’s awkward when it’s such an incredibly simple and unobtrusive effect. Falling speed increases also deal with a common, obvious complaint with yours about foes just jumping over the coins – if they so much as slightly overlap the coins as they try to jump over them, they’ll be dragged down, and there’s no limit to how high the coins can get stacked. He also has an incredibly potent anti-air utilt, especially if he’s right next to the coins as in the context you later describe. Again, you can’t state things as something as vague as “awkward” without giving an actual reason for it, and just assuming people agree with you when you have non-existent respect from even Junahu.

    But that’s not enough because these coins create such a massive dichotomy in your characterization. You establish him immediately as incredibly greedy, but he can apparently create massive amounts of money in a short period of time just by having his Meowth use Pay Day. Alright then, so he doesn’t really need to cheat or steal for that. But despite you clearly establishing that Meowth’s money is valuable when you mention him as an income source and him shouting “I’m Rich,” in his up tilt, the primary use of the coins is to hide… and dump them offstage. I can’t be the only person who sees a contradiction in his motivation when he’s creating money just to throw it away. And this is an Original Character for crying out loud, so you had to actually work to make him self-contradictory.

    I considered prohibiting the ability to make outright holes in the stage so he couldn’t dump the money, but I decided to make that bit in the characterization with him having caved in his gold and having had to get it back later. Sure, it may come across a bit cheap, but I’m at least changing the character as I’m making the set rather than just pulling out the theoretical “It can’t be OOC because it’s an OC”. In any case, I was forming the character and the moveset simultaneously in my mind, keep in mind this was a one day set and in the earliest draft had a fly (Beyond your time, DM?) with a scrooge money pit and a Nidoking in it. There has been very little toying with the prospect of making OCs specifically for the sake of MYM, as Junahu’s were archetypes without backstories, and I’ve largely wanted to make one specifically for this ever since Hugo.

    As for the amount of money Meowth creates, I was largely thinking of it as a comical exaggeration, much like the comical dtilt/ftilt. One thing that I can definitely see where you’re coming from is disliking “accidental” attack animations when most of the rest of the set is them intentionally attacking the enemy, due to the disconnect between the character and player. While I can see where you’re coming from, on a character such as this I just wanted to show that aspect of the character with the dtilt, and put in the ftilt more for the purpose of functionality.

    When you later rant about the dtilt being contradictory about not having a damaging hitbox, that’s the main reason the ftilt exists. True, “non damaging” was the incorrect terminology to use and gives you something to obnoxiously spamquote, but the intent largely was that that outside of the specials the moves in the set could all be used for self defense. I don’t think you or I particularly care if the foe is getting especially damaged from Clayton’s attacks, as the purpose of the many, many defensive moves characters like Bowser and Charizard, let alone Ganondorf, would kill to have is to deal with foes. I’ll take putting the foe to sleep with a uair over knocking them slightly away any day as far as defending myself. Clayton himself is less concerned with actually hurting the foe as he is surviving and getting himself out of the way. You’re the one who advises against handholding so much, and the playstyle summary largely just wants to get out of your way here as Ditto fills in the obvious holes of actually damaging the foe.

    We then move onto the Down Special, the closest thing we have to a functional part of this set, and that’s because you don’t control it for the most part and is the closest the set gets to being able to actually fight enemies effectively rather than the ineffective game of cowering and hoping opponents play right into your telegraphed traps you insist on. I dislike the switching mechanic though, and it seems very awkward to use as a double tap and assumes that that won’t interfere with other mechanics. I think it would be much better to use it so that you can recall and resummon Ditto at-will, because as it is, Ditto is stupidly vulnerable to getting gimped right from the beginning, as any Ice Climbers main will tell you. Even Larfleeze had some mechanics to help prevent his minions from being killed, Ditto is just helpless. And the whole real point of Ditto, besides defense, is to confuse the opponent about who they are.

    I could waste a sentence describing about an alternative input that one of the overly few characters who uses double taps would use, and assume that Clayton co-exists in game with such a character that is very rare even in MYM, or I could stop wasting your time and tell you things remotely relevant to the moveset. Clayton does not bullshit the reader, and has quite the clear and concise writing style for something that still actually bothers to describe the playstyle relevance of moves throughout, though I suppose you wouldn’t know about that since your movesets don’t have those anymore.

    Most of your complaints about Ditto being “helpless” are alleviated by the fact that you can indeed control him, and not have to rely on an AI which is already a very high level. In addition, as mentioned in the playstyle summary, there’s no need to summon him until you have an actual set-up, in which case he will be fighting far more competently than the foe given computers have 20/20 vision , you only having to occasionally swap to control of Ditto to prevent the rare computer stupidity, and with a proper set-up Clayton doesn’t need to worry about his own defense terribly. Of course, if you somehow think his countless defensive melee moves are not enough to get to that point in his set-up, there’s a problem.

    First of all, there are indicators displaying player above each character’s head, which should remove a lot of confusion unless Ditto somehow duplicates this too.

    Do you really think that those petty tags exist in a game where this moveset does, much less any of the countless other invisibility/duplicates sets which are far more plagued by this than Clayton? Don’t infringe on Junahu’s stock complaint bin because you need to find more things wrong.

    Moving on further to the Up Special, I at least have to credit you for not making ripped out stage chunks not be another terraforming mechanic, but it lacks some essential details, for example, if using the zair actually brings them to the top of the thrown rocks like a ledge grapple or makes him swing beneath them or what have you, details that would help visualize the moveset. The teleporters themselves are a little awkward, simple details like say, how big a teleporter is and how much you have to be stepping on it for it to be effective. These kinds of details are important. Also, you missed a detail on a key interaction; exactly how does the Dynamite and terraforming affect your teleporters? Or perhaps dynamite is teleported when it lands on a teleporter? It seems pretty clear you didn’t think that out.

    Unless stated otherwise, passively referencing a brawl mechanic like a tether typically means that it does work like it does in Brawl, shockingly, meaning he pulls himself up to the top of the ground chunk. As far as the teleporters, I am only talking about foes getting teleported throughout the whole move, never do I state projectiles can be teleported. I probably should have said the size, yes, given how easy that would be to say, but how much you have to be stepping on it, really? These aren’t exactly things you’d include in your own sets.

    In addition to that, I want to point out that you incredibly overestimate the sturdiness of Machoke and how much opponents are supposed to avoid him. 100% damage is really nothing, a few charged smashes will do that much on most characters. This wouldn’t be so bad if he wasn’t completely defenseless, had super armor, and every time you use him he spends a full second preparing during which most players can get at least two attacks off. And who’s going to stop them? Ditto who’s hiding away? Or Clayton who’s also hiding away? And once they do rid the stage of Machoke, that takes away… your recovery and most of your KO moves. So the opponent has no reason not to immediately take him down whenever you have him do anything. Triple his stamina and throw in some sort of counter attack he has and I’ll talk to you about being nigh invulnerable.

    He’s busy being invulnerable in the background whenever he’s not setting up, and his other two moves are pretty much only used as a follow-ups or Clayton has the foe grabbed already. In any case, even regardless, I actually agree with you on 100 stamina being too low, regardless of it being your most overreaching number crunchy complaint in the set, baffling me you give a whole paragraph to it. The problem more lies in me correctly predicting the meat of MYM thinking he would lean more towards overpowered than underpowered, with MYM in general leaning towards lower quantities of stamina for their minions and such a high amount of HP as 100 being considered “ridiculous” and laughed at from time to time in sets. None the less, I still think he should be killable, so if I were to actually implement him I would give him HP regeneration of, say, 4 per second, obviously still going when he’s in the background. As a matter of fact, that’s actually a good idea to go edit in.

    Oh and, I recall you thinking 100 HP for -Machamp- in Hugo was too overpowered, and that he needed some form of weakness.

    It took me a while to decide where to start with this, but I’ll start with the range. I see you’re still sticking to Battlefield Platforms despite them being clearly an inferior unit of measurement

    Because Peanut spammed pretty pictures, and attacks in Brawl all have overly low range? The range of platforms is typically used for projectiles, such as here. MYM is much more projectile and long range heavy in general, and this in fact is just such a projectile.

    and it shows in your choice of having a two battlefield platform range; Clayton literally has to be offstage to toss a stick of dynamite in the center of Battlefield.

    I could’ve and should’ve number crunched in the ability to angle the dynamite (Something you utterly loathe, regardless of the obvious need to angle projectiles over walls in MYM), though I was rushed and more thinking about the animation at that point in time than such a simplistic and easily fixed complaint.

    Almost the rest of the entire paragraph is busy going off the assumption of how terrible a 2 platform range is, much like the Machoke paragraph, with you desperately trying to make something out of nothing.

    Furthermore, it’s terraforming again, and I’ve clearly specified my opinion on that as an element of movesets. But the problem isn’t just that it’s impossible to actually implement and incredibly awkward

    Please, provide proof or any form of reasoning of the fact that terraforming is impossible to implement, or stop spamming this statement that literally nobody in the entirety of MYM agrees with you on.

    “Awkward” is just about the safest and vaguest complaint you can get, when terraforming is quite practical and movesets that use it can actually fight opponents fine and be quite viable. Yes, many terraforming sets are incredibly set-up heavy and focus on raping the stage, but that is no fault of terraforming. “Terraforming sets” are more just labels for sets that exclusively terraform like that, terraforming can be used for much more practical purposes when it is a side element in a set.

    Depending on the stage he may never be able to make a hole in the stage (Yoshi’s Island, a NEUTRAL) or not even be able to make a pit on account of the thickness or lackthereof of the stage

    Hence why making a hole in the stage is not a crucial element to this moveset. You’re the one constantly advocating for less handholding in writing, that was just talked about in the playstyle summary so much because it had not been talked about much in the set yet. Terraforming is a completely optional aspect of the moveset and very well could’ve been entirely left out in DM’s perfect world, which would actually remove most of your complaints simultaneously.

    Oh lord, versatility, in this set you’re constantly deriding as flowcharty, no, an entire GENRE as? Say it isn’t so!

    And yes, the rare terraforming set that does almost nothing but terraform the stage suffers from this a bit, but even then, you have sets like Golem which just create more stage, or ones that just bend the terrain rather than destroying it.

    And as far as his stage problems go, he literally has no answer whatsoever to any enemy on a platform above him with his terrible jumps, inoffensive up aerial and entire assumption that opponents will just wade through teleporters and coins instead of jumping over them.

    Largely addressed earlier with his heavy, heavy anti-air measures, though really, you want to be on a platform above a guy with this utilt? With how much you talk about platforms, keep in mind he can also quite easily build gold piles high enough to outright consume platforms.

    The Dash Attack is similarly incomprehensible, leaving a Kirby-high trail of sweat and a hitbox that primarily hits behind him? And that it stuns as hard as a paralyzer to get hit by a fat man? It’s ridiculous.

    “Incomprehensible” indeed. The idea more was that was the highest point the sweat shot out of his body, not that it forms literal pools of sweat that high, if that’s what you’re thinking. In any case, this is one of the most blatant melee options you so ignore, regardless of how awkward of a move it is, given it lets him stun (10x more useful than knockback) foes –and- get away from them, and you well admit how much Clayton’s going to be running away.

    Notice in that defense that –I- called the move awkward, and it is regardless incredibly so. It was the last move I added in a one day set, and was the main thing prohibiting me from posting it. I think I’ll just edit it into a nice disjointed chicken leg swing behind him, to give him some good defense behind himself while running. The main reason the difficulty was so high was because I largely wanted Machoke to have another move because of him having so few moves in the set, but decided against it because I thought it would be stupid for a input where you have to dash not giving you a hitbox on your immediate person.

    The Forward Smash I’m afraid is incredibly telegraphed and requires the opponent to be on the bottom of the ground to get hit, and is most of your KO potential.

    The forward smash is more of a set-up move than a KO move, but becomes one largely with the aid of the grab-game via the fthrow/dthrow.

    If an opponent happens to be just standing on a platform, like every single stage besides Final Destination or the Bridge of Eldin has, well, they’re completely invulnerable to it!

    We’ve already addressed the utilt and how Clayton can completely envelop the platforms with his gold coins, but again, the fthrow and dthrow are the main ways he’s going to be landing the fsmash, and the grab enables him to catch foes when they’re on his level and prevent them from cowering off. The hell do you expect foes to be doing up on a platform anyway? Waiting, giving Clayton time to set-up? Using downward traveling projectiles, found almost nowhere in Brawl, only to have the platforms block them from hitting him? If they are some aerial camper, they have to come down some time, and that’s when they get hit by that grab –you- bloody think is broken and set-up for fsmash. If they’re doing their own set-up, what exactly are they going to lay down onto the space of a mere platform, beyond maybe one trap? After that they’re just aimlessly waiting.

    The aerials as well, unsurprisingly, leave him with absolutely no options to deal with an opponent near him, leaving poor Clayton completely helpless to any attempt to juggle outside of a Hail Mary Up Special while knocked offstage.

    Uair and fair are the moves you’re looking for. Fair is probably the most broken defensive move in the set, as far as actually providing him defense, much less considering that it doesn’t even cancel if you hit the ground. Uair, boohoo, doesn’t do damage, in the off-stage scenario you’re describing the foe is falling downwards far away from Clayton.

    but I’m not a fan of a special in one set being entirely improved as an aerial in one where it’s a footnote.

    A special that is used about as much as Dedede’s Jet Hammer on a character desperately trying to not fall into the bottom three of the tier list, regardless of it being the character’s signature move.

    Finally we get to the throws, where you make an Escape Rope boring by making it just a normal rope

    The actual escape part of the rope is where it’s used as a tether. Regardless, you have a rope that is durable enough to pull up a fat man to the ledge. The hell why wouldn’t you grab with it?

    The throws are, in your grand tradition, ridiculously overcomplicated, although I actually do like the Up Throw.

    Oh yes, so complicated. Let me summarize them for you in points you can understand:
    One tethers foe to a minecart.
    One makes Meowth latch onto foe like a pikmin.
    One makes the foe have to escape another grab while Clayton is free to move.

    They are some of the remotely detailed moves in the set, yes, because I am actually explaining the obscure details of each move that you’ve been begging for throughout the rest of this review.

    I apologize for not making my throws 2 sentences each and somehow making them so irrelevant they’re a waste of time to read regardless of the short length. Throws are a better input to put interesting effects on that the likes of standards and aerials because of the fact that they automatically hit the foe, so there’s a lot of your obligations to make them practical gone right off the bat – the only thing they have to be more practical than is each other. Even Sakurai is vaguely aware of this with DK’s fthrow – can you picture an input like that being remotely possible on something that’s not a throw?

    In the end though, Clayton doesn’t really do anything interesting.

    We haven’t had so much as one set before that obscures the position of the –opponent-. I suppose I really should’ve re-stated all the ways to do that in the playstyle summary that I was shouting throughout the moveset, as you again seem to have missed the point. It’s always about playing hide and seek and making yourself hard to find, which is more of an added bonus in this set. In any case, aside from that, Clayton is about the execution of seeing so many different beloved interesting concepts interact, if you’re going to ignore that very vocal central concept.

    preceded by obnoxious shouts that make the entire hiding game completely moot

    They know he’s using the attacks, they don’t know where he is using them, unless you have some sort of television from Kupa’s Pennywise that makes it so the TV magically displays more of the sound where the clip is played. Those audio clips had a dual purpose aside from just characterization, and were probably largely inspired by that article of yours to give characters more actual weaknesses, as this way the foe at least can have some degree of response, even though they don’t know Clayton’s actual location. The audio clips also let Clayton have a better idea of where –he- is in his attack, as opposed to the countless invisibility sets in MYM that would largely end up killing themselves due to them confusing themselves as much as the foe.


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