Posted by: masterwarlord | September 15, 2012

MYM 13 Warlordian Comment Block

Any comments referring to my current state on SWF will be deleted. My rankings for this contest will be on the Stadium.

IN CHARACTER CAP’N BOWSER

I don’t really have anything to say about this moveset – I’m only commenting it because you’re bothersome about asking my opinion on sets that very clearly aren’t my kind of style. I really don’t see any playstyle here, and what Feraligatr’s doing is pretty bloody boring. It’s not like Feraligatr even has to be interesting on his own – the least you could do is find something remotely interesting for him to do in the context of 5 other massive movesets. In any case, I also really don’t like (About Trainer Joe in general) that you are putting on a bunch of changes to the engine to make the game more like Melee and entitling it “SSB4” – it’s a very sly way to make those movesets for your project M stuff – if you’re going to do that (Something that makes me nauseous), just do it straight up without hiding it. It’s also a pretty easy way to cheat in an extra move with those super smash things. . .

POKEMON EXISTING ONLY FOR TEAM SUPPORT

Alakazam has some basic entertaining stuff with his tilts, yes, but it’s really just throwing a projectile in 3 different directions, so even that is fairly fillerish. Bouncing spoons to and fro is more entertaining and more importantly actually relevant, although I wish there was more focus on this in his 1v1 playstyle. At least Alakazam does anything at all with his partners via his automatic reflecting Special, but it’s really pathetic how little this is played off of in the other sets. So many of the inputs, most blatantly the aerials, are wasted just as KO moves when you already have Feraligatr as the token bruiser of the group. He also seems to come across as quite laggy in this moveset on the whole, and in combo with his 5/10 weight and constantly physically bashing people over the head with his spoon this doesn’t really feel like the speedy glass cannon that is Alakazam.

BERRIES

This one is blander than Feraligatr in that it doesn’t really have much of any purpose at all in the playstyle, while simultaneously taking next to no advantage of Breloom’s actual potential (Feraligatr at least is difficult to do). Yes, Breloom has an actual background Special that is relevant like Alakazam’s, though at least Breloom interacts with Alakazam’s at all, whereas minimal interaction is done with Breloom’s. What truly makes Breloom worse than Feraligatr though, is that it’s not just generic. It tries to have some creativity in it by using MYM 4 esque “creativity” which done today largely results in tackiness. Breloom doesn’t exactly strike me as a Grass pokemon who should be planting random things in set-up esque moves, does it to you? That dsmash is probably the worst move you’ve done, and it feels terribly out of place on one of your movesets specifically.

PORYGON 3

This is largely what we’ve been waiting for – any actual team synergy with the rest of the Pokemon, which only Alakazam even presented to attempt, and that was quite limited. Here there’s plenty of versatile fodder that’s far better in the context of the other teammates, with Trick Room and Conversion. Unsurprisingly, the at all interesting interactions are with Alakazam and Porygon Z, the remotely high potential Pokemon, not helping out with the other two deadweights that are Feraligatr and Breloom. While a good deal of projectile manipulation is done here, especially in context with Alakazam, it’s largely contained within the Specials. The standards are okay for their various interesting canceling/mechanics with the jab, but the aerials are basically the standards again but blander and less purposeful. The smashes are a few okay interactions with the trick room, which is decent if tacky in a vein much like Gardevoir, whereas the grab-game again isn’t that good with just the one throw that teleports them to the trick room being all that relevant. All in all, a huge improvement and a good base, but it’d be fairly weak on its own (Albeit stronger than Kammy and company) and the synergy is kind of hard to really get that excited about on the team in general when, again, Breloom and Feraligatr are terrible and contribute nothing.

LOSING 3/5 STANDARDS = GAME

It seems a bit bizarre so much focus is given to removing 3 moves from the foe’s arsenal, and devouring food isn’t exactly a length process. It’s less of a lengthy one when the foe has almost nothing to worry about in terms of getting pressured by Wonka’s moveset. The only real thing that’s a threat there is devouring candy to achieve some sort of tacky status effect that doesn’t actually help Wonka that much. With how useless some of them are, it’s a wonder you refused to give Wonka more attacks, as the few attacks in the aerials come across as some of the most important moves in the set. Foes will also generally have at least one smash with which they can use on top of explosive candy, and the explosive candy is a lot more central due to how much more viable it is than the more interesting thing you’re doing with the candy due to it actually packing some of the very little punch in this moveset. The Oompa Loompas are the most clever part of the set really, though they don’t do much that the explosive candy doesn’t already. The set needs to interact more with the foe and less with itself.

The other thing is that because of how much healing the foe gets, you have to make the playstyle more gimping based. Of course, because you refuse to put on any attacks after doing poorly with Ratigan’s actual attacks last contest, it is entirely a slip’n’slide. Fair, a slip’n’slide makes more sense for this character than most and would flow into his game. . .But the slip’n’slide you introduce is very cringey by banning the foe from attacking while in their blueberried states. It almost seems like a counter-measure to deal with the rest of the set being so unviable making this so overpowered, but it comes across as an un-interactive kill method that is basically what Phatcat and DM stereotype the entirety of MYM as. The set would be. . .-Okay- with a more generic slip’n’slide, but I hate the existing grab-game, and the way the throws are handled it just feels like you wanted to have throw inputs and little else.

WORST TERRAFORMING SET

This set’s terraforming is very bland as is, but it’s really bizarre that a character that is essentially a stickman attached to 3 drills and has bizarre portal terraforming magic in-canon largely focuses on comboing over terraforming. The comboing and terraforming really don’t flow into each-other at all, and the comboing is even more bland than the terraforming, and has minimal explanation for why things actually combo into each other with you passively referencing the fact he can combo en mass more than actually enabling him to do so. The worst thing about this set, though, is how tacky the terraforming is – I hate this brand of terraforming where the character does several animations which have no real reason to terraform in the first place, but has several generic animations which somehow terraform the ground in different mystical ways.

WORST SUBTITLE EVER

This moveset is somehow a slog to read through just for the fact that you go into explicit detail about the generic “uses” of each move with and without the arms that would apply if they were on a Brawl character rather than their role in Beastman’s specific playstyle. When the moveset’s being generic, it’s also not even mass clawing attacks and kicks – Beastman for whatever reason prefers to headbutt things as his primary clawless method of attack. The interaction with the claws is also paltry, and the way to command them is on very awkward inputs as you jump into the air for no especially good reason to use them. The playstyle in general is very weak, and largely amounts to gimping. If I’m going to throw you any bone, though, the set certainly seems very balanced and viable – how is an entire moveset’s worth of generic as hell Brawl attacks, unarmed and armed, not enough for DM?

FATHER TIME WAS NEVER CONVULUTUED

Junahu’s comment has never been so contrarian as here, where we entirely disagree in that I find the specials have some promise while loathing the rest of the moveset in its entirety. This is the most difficult of your movesets to read this contest and one of overall, and with how every move gets so tacky for no good reason to not actually advance the playstyle it’s quite bizarre – I keep thinking I’m missing something when the flow just isn’t there to be found in this mess. I could go and systematically review these inputs in a full on article if it was necessary, but I’m far from up to it given the circumstances.  oweverI apologize for the terrible quality of this comment, but I’m struggling to even remember much of the set when I read it so long ago and it was so complicated/tacky/difficult to read, and despite all this fails to contribute much to a genre as open ended as –time travel-.

RETCONNING DEMASQUE

A Snake clone with altered stats is indeed superior to Junahu’s moveset. Jun’s version has Snake’s dsmash randomly anyway.

Undoubtedly my favorite of your sets posted this contest – while I have character bias in favor of this one, I was largely expecting this to be the worst of the bunch, given how difficult the character is and your tendency to not care about playability/exaggerate abilities of characters. The item manipulation in the set is done incredibly well, and specifically interacting with De’Masque and fighting him as the match goes on was a stroke of brilliance both for the moveset itself and the characterization, and getting items from De’Masque via the safe mechanic is an equally fantastic crowning moment of ingenuity. The elaborateness of it all really fits Atmey perfectly, and yet despite all this you still give him a couple of very strong direct attacking moves to make up for his lack of them.

My main complaint is a very simple one – all of this elaborate item manipulation, and all you can get is one very simple item from the foe that isn’t especially useful, and the bombs from the dsmash. Yes, the bombs can trigger into a massive explosion in the safe, but that’s a literal hit or miss deal as using the bombs up is pretty terrible. With all of the random stuff in the moveset, I really think you could’ve fit in a couple more simplistic items for him to manipulate. I also think you could’ve come up with a better way to make walls and reflect projectiles than the crates and frame from the usmash and fsmash, but I’m willing to forgive it for the usmash just for the awesome interactions you make with the crates.

CYBORG HOUND

This set has some decent ideas. . .But they’re all competing for attention against one another, and the execution, while decent in the playstyle sense, is so splattered all over the place in terms of both practicality and readability that it’s difficult to make heads or tails of the set. I think the biggest mistake presentation wise is that the smashes with the hound come last, when they are the blatant focal point of the set and probably should’ve been the specials. For what it’s worth, they’re great, but more items are needed for the hound to devour/mass item manipulation attacks, and more focus on that would be better than an ammo bank mechanic of all things – I thought we were past those. Yes, you do flow into the ammo bank and come up with creative ways to fuel it, with creating minions and such with the sole intent of absorbing them and wacky as hell cloning platforms, it’s a very awkward/weak pay-off for all of this creativity, and just comes across as yet another un-necessary layer on top of everything else. When the set’s not focusing on the hound, it’s either too tacky or too tame, and never really finds its footing with the incredibly fast pace you’re bringing us through the set.

PONY ROBE AND WIZARD HAT

This moveset mostly reeks of Calvin and Hobbes, wherein most of the creativity isn’t for the sake of the playstyle and is just random (AKA it’s not creative, it’s just tacky), making it much wackier and awkward to actually play than the MYM sets who focus their creativity. It’s not all bad, of course, and this set actually is stronger conceptually than I’d expect for a duplicates and smokescreens set. Baiting the foe into the explosion into the middle of the cart with the duplicate is actually quite clever, though I’m not going to give too much credit when you don’t even acknowledge this or barely even talk about the duplicate in general – it seems to be accidental on your part. Instead, you choose to focus heavily on the stupid hat mechanic which doesn’t really have much of anything to do with anything, and is largely a debuff – a tenth of a change in speed/power isn’t worth unmasking your animations on a character who uses mindgames for their playstlye rather heavily. Combined with many tacky moves like dtilt and the lack of throws (Even if they’re all generic, four throws is always the way to go, for MYM and in-smash practicality), the execution is far too terrible to work on the decent concepts. This is stronger than the BladeKnight420 version conceptually, but the execution is just so terrible I’d say I prefer –that-, somebody’s first set with many one line move descriptions.

YOUBOOB

The main complaint I have with this moveset is something most common in Nick’s sets like Drillman, but is also quite strong in Kat’s sets. It’s where you have a hitbox on your moves, but there’s largely no playstyle relevant reason to hit with the hitbox and you use the move for some various strange playstyle based effects. Telly really doesn’t feel like she’d be using these attacks for much outside of GTFO and generically spacing foes towards TVs, though in the least you do enable her to use her aerials with the extra effects turned off, which is a bit weird in and of itself, but less weird than being punished with weird minion commands when just trying to attack people.

The actual moveset is fine, and I like the fly concept having fully read the moveset in just creating mass stuff that you’ve established can already be interacted with. The main reason I see for her to actually play aggressively as you suggest, is largely to defend her frail as all hell minions with the bair (Something you don’t mention) – a character that defends their minions isn’t something we’ve seen in forever, though Telly isn’t the best equipped to do that. Either way, I do like the minion improvements the most in the fly, and it actually feels pretty balanced now that foes can actually use all their (Non earthshaking) attacks there. I’m also impressed with how you actually made most of the other throws quite viable after how incredibly good fthrow was, though bthrow’s the exception that feels too situational in the context of the other all-powerful throws. Either way, I’m fishing for complaints now, tis a good set.

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Responses

  1. One does not simply stop Warlord from commenting.

  2. I like how WL keeps bashing the mons for their 1v1 style when they aren’t ever supposed to be 1v1 unless in a special match or on their last limb.

  3. Regardless of your status, this being out is great.

  4. … just curious, but what did you see as breloom’s potential, WL?

  5. Do you have link to these movesetS so I can click them as I read?


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