Posted by: forwardarrow | August 29, 2016

The Almighty Lizard Challenge



Over the course of MYM history, we’ve had a few instances of move copying. The most commonly cited example was TAC, a moveset hated at its posting and still hated today. That said, move copying actually became a fairly legitimate genre as time went on. This started with Ameno-sagiri fighting using duplicates of the opponent and making custom sets out of everyone facing him. To the detractors of Ameno, it won its contest in a landslide, if nothing else it cannot be called irrelevant, unlike TAC which was just a joke Junahu tried to force on MYM as legitimate after Rool wrote it in 15 minutes in a drunken stupor.

We’ve also had a lot of broken sets in MYM history, infinites are everywhere especially in older sets while other hideous exploits can be used for ludicrous durability, range, or power. Even nowadays you’ll have the occasional balance disaster. There have been a fair few articles on this stuff in the past, and in chat we’ve frequently dug up past sets to look at hilarious balance problems that we missed at the time. Of all these, Strangelove stands out as the most extreme example of all time, requiring some truly insane exploits or a very specifically tuned moveset(Chou-Chou Infinite and possibly Syrma) to even defeat.

So where I’m going with this is probably obvious. We’re taking a set in the move copying genre, and trying to create the most powerful thing we can imagine. Move copiers that can copy full movesets like Lizard and TAC can actually do everything Strangelove can, so we’re giving them the chance to fully exploit that. The challenge is simple, using things he could acquire in an 8 man FFA match as Smash 4 allows for now, make the most powerful Lizard you possibly can. For those who haven’t read the set, Lizard can copy any input from the opponent if he observes it, and then use it from his “observation” pose which is accessed via Neutral Special. If he observes it multiple times, he can apply buffs to it, either damage and knockback, just knockback, just damage, increased range, or increased speed.

So a few things to go over before you start submitting your plans:

Why not TAC or Ameno instead?

TAC and Ameno actually do have advantages over Lizard, but it has to be said that I think at the end of the day Lizard comes out with the advantage here, in terms of being able to create the most actually unbeatable deity. Ameno can create custom built duplicates of opponents, meaning he can have more than one of the chosen god entity on the field. However, Ameno can only copy input sections, not be picky down to individual inputs to the degree Lizard can. In addition, Ameno’s body is somewhat exploitable with how huge it is and the fact that its stamina based, its more likely he will be unable to defend himself against specific exploits than our deity Lizard. He also loses the ability to statistically customize moves to improve them.

TAC has advantage over Lizard that isn’t just stats(and are you seriously telling me the most broken MYM has to offer is worth some slightly safer stats?), he can copy grab games. However, he loses out on Lizard’s significant advantage of having his own moveset on top of that which can be used to compliment it. I tried to give him a pretty open-ended set if anything to combine his own stuff with other movesets in interesting ways(though obviously, some people don’t agree on that, which is fine). He also can again, not customize the stats of moves he uses.


What sets qualify for use in the challenge?

Pure joke sets should not be used, as a lot of them are designed to intentionally break the game and sometimes have ridiculous interactions with real life or whatever(Wiz and Kupa 2.0 for example), which is kind of unfair for this challenge. For the sake of argument, Emidius and Darkseid are counted as pure joke sets. However, any serious MYM set is fair game, including game breaking ones like Voldemort(his Uair is quite a nice pickup, just for some advice), Steven Chapman, and Dr. Strangelove. In addition, any Smash set is up for grabs from Smash 64 to Smash 4, and I will allow Project M moves as well. I doubt any will be used given all the absolutely broken stuff you can dig up in the MYM archives, but the option exists(and who knows Melee Fox/Falco Shine is absolutely ridiculous and might be worth taking with the right stuff around it). 3v1 boss movesets are fair game, CtF exclusives are not as they cannot be played outside that mode.

PSABR sets and Neku Sakuraba are not viable to use for this challenge, on account of using a completely different control scheme. Lizard doesn’t even exist under the PSABR engine and Neku would require a gamepad to use his moves, and being the only real gamepad set would just have all his attacks included by default if he were, so that’s not very interesting. Special Smashes are illegal, as only a few sets really have those and it just needlessly complicates things. Also, please for my sake don’t do anything that requires any more inputs than necessary.

A note is you can actually use the attacks of minions, as Lizard is established to be able to copy attacks from minions in his own moveset with his golems. I will, however, have to judge this on a case by case basis, as you have to figure an appropriate input for that attack to logically be on. Don’t just put some axeman’s forward swing on Up Tilt for example.

Lastly keep in mind you can use a max of SEVEN other sets. Any more and it won’t fit into an eight player match.


How exactly do I submit my response?

For each move, you’d simply put an input and the name of the set you’re taking it from, as well as the author. For the sake of this we’re also allowing Lizard to recopy the same move multiple times, but not infinitely, for the stacking bonus to range/power/speed. For the challenge, we’re putting a limit of 5 copies, as it makes distributing the numbers simple but potentially challenging. Just specific if you want the buffs like so for exampe-

Damage and Knockback: 0 Large Damage: 2 Large Knockback: 0 Range: 1 Speed: 2

So a finished sample response to this would go like

Neutral Special: Electivire by FrozenRoy Damage and Knockback: 2 Large Damage: 0 Large Knockback: 1 Range: 0 Speed: 2

Which would considerably increase the damage and knockback, throw an extra sizeable knockback boost on top of that larger than what they would get from simply going to Damage and Knockback 3, and make the move considerably faster. Just do that for all 23 inputs and you’re golden.


So how will this be judged, and is there a reward if you win?

I’m the judge, jury, and executioner here, so I will be determining which set is the most powerful. Of course, I’m open to discussion points from others, so its possible to sway my opinion, but it might be best to throw in a little description of why alongside your submission. You have until September 19th to submit your entries and argue it out, I will judge then.

There is a reward for winning: you get to ask me to make an article on the moveset of your choice. Doesn’t matter what moveset, I will write an analysis of it, and as much as I really can given the moveset. You can pick a moveset that you want to read about for whatever reason, or just make me suffer by forcing me to analyze some really short/insubstantial-for-an-article moveset.


Alternative Challenges

If you’re not feeling the main challenge is your cup of tea, I have a few alternate options for you to have a bit more fun with. If there’s only one submission for these individual challenges, if its significantly horrifying/interesting in a way the entries submitted for the main one aren’t, I’ll give you your article as well. If not, well you’re out of luck. If there are at least two entries in any alternative challenge, I’ll judge the winner and give them an article regardless, but there has to be competition in the first place. One person can in fact win multiple challenges, so if DM wins three times somehow and force me to write articles on Crustle, The Secret Apprentice, and Kenji and Hisao all separately, that’s what I have to do. Due date is the same for all of these as the main challenge, September 19th.


Strangelove-less Challenge: Dr. Strangelove is made illegal for this challenge, and his moves cannot be used for this. Given how much stronger Dr. Strangelove is than any other MYM set, this likely completely changes the nature of the game as you try not to incorporate his gameplan with your set. Seriously if you’re entering the main challenge, I recommend you familiarize yourself with that set.

Hardcore Challenge: We actually could, potentially, have TAC copy Lizard’s observation and build a second set on top of that to suppliment it, albeit one without the statistical changes. To make this more absurd, CtF is now allowed, including all the sets from it, and since we’re using that the challenge now takes place in CtF and lets you copy from up to 19 other sets. This may allow for a significantly scarier god than the one created with just Lizard, but will require you dig up a considerably larger number of inputs to use(and explain to help your case for winning).

Single Era Challenge: You can only pick sets from one MYM, and sets from Smash Brothers itself are banned on account of this. You have to specify which MYM you are using for this challenge.

Smash Only Challenge: You can only use sets from existing Smash Bros games, no MYM allowed. Project M sets are tolerated, and buffs are still applied. You have to specify from which Smash the moves come from instead of which MYMer.

So with all that said, if this stuff appeals to you at all, go and look around for some seriously broken stuff. Make a true god of MYM that puts Strangelove to shame.


And one last thing, and I’m sorry I didn’t add this immediately: You can create two entries for any given challenge. They must, however, be differentiated by at least five move choices. As Smash only and Single era are more restrictive, I’ll be cutting the amount required of difference for three in those.


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